Climate change: is capitalism the problem?

Is capitalism the problem? And if that's the case, what should we do instead?

This is a guest video by Hazel Thayer as I have taken July off to work on my new studio. Please do give her a warm welcome and if you like this video introducing climate economics, please check out her channels!

Check Hazel out on...
YouTube: @hazelisonline

REFERENCES

Capitalist-adjacent or reformist degrowth books
- Less is More by Jason Hickel
- Doughnut Economics by Kate Raworth
- Prosperity Without Growth by Tim Jackson
Anti-capitalist degrowth books/articles
- Slow Down by Kohei Saito
- Timothee Parrique’s work

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Some stock footage courtesy of Getty.
Edited by Luke Negus.

Is capitalism bad for the environment? And if it is, what are the alternatives anyway? In this video about climate change and capitalism, economist Hazel Thayer aka hazelisonline talks about what capitalism is, why it might not be working great, and what we can do to fix capitalism so that it doesn't trash the planet.

Huge thanks to my supporters on Patreon:
Norm Zemke, I want to roll down a hill into a river of beans, David Mann, Ben Thayer, Eric A Gentzler, Glen Monks, Daniel Chen, Gary Stark, dryfrog, Marcus Bosshard, Peter Reid, bitreign33.

Jacob, Bastian Pranzas, Lucas Johnston, Jeffry ., Whitefang, Marius Kießling, Jon Arlov, Artem Plotnikov, Paul H and Linda L, Andy Hartley.

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[ErikLevin]

So...
- Is capitalism the problem?
- Is sustainability impossible under capitalism?
- What would it mean to abolish capitalism?
- What are the alternatives?
- What even is capitalism to begin with?

I didn't learn the answers to these excellent questions that were posited in the beginning. I'm sorry but I found this video a bit aimless and superficial.

[md]

I know saying this to a video by an economist is kind of audacious on my part, but I feel the difference between government regulation/control and socialism was not made clear enough in my opinion

[xway]

I suppose it's true that Scandinavia is "on the more socialist side" of economics, but we're still firmly capitalist. We've been ruled by social democratic parties (want to take the best parts of socialism and incorporate into a capitalist system) for the largest part of the last century, and lately have been turning more liberal (want more freedom, including economic freedom). What's happening now here in Sweden at least is that we're actively encouraging companies to become more environmentally friendly with various incentives. We're big producers of steel, which releases a lot of CO2, but we're starting to replace a lot of the coal in that process with electricity, for example. But notably no one is trying to limit economic growth. We're looking to keep growing by pioneering green technologies and then profit from the green wave that we hope is coming globally as well.

[gregorynuttall]

I may be wrong, but my understanding is: more government does not a Socialist country make. Which is what seemed to be implied later in the video.

One "solution" I've heard floated around is actually making more workplaces more democratic. Like a worker owned co-op. Let the employees decide what to do with their time, profits and resources, not a few corporate executives. I would imagine if the majority were given a democratic voice in the way their businesses were run, we might see a lot more environmental responsibility.

[Fuego]

I'm not a fan of saying that some countries are "more on the socialist side", as to e it falls straight into the usuall "socialism is when the government does stuff".
State regulation is not socialism, even the most neoliberal person wants some state regulation (In fucked up ways obviously to maintain a "free market"). There are and were many countries with a very dirigist economy that were nowhere near socialism (and would put you to jail for having said that).

That being said, you can also very easily imagine a non-capitalist system where degrowth is as much of an insult as under the current system. For instance a company democratically owned by its workers by itself has no reason to think about lowering production, the concept of externalities still can exist and regulation needs to come from the state (Or the wider community if you are an anarchist but at this point I don't really see the difference with a state, may be I lack imagination) which would also need to be actually democratic in order to care about that.

[amanofnoreputation]

Actual death by tornado: Kalm
Slightly less money: Panik!

[FatherDraven]

"What is capitalism anyways?" There wasn't a lot of talk about the ownership of the means of production in this video, and you seem to refer to the government doing stuff and social safety nets as "socialism" instead of talking about the workers instead of individuals or corporations owning the businesses they perform labor for.

[husktran]

As a Norwegian I feel the need to point out that we were Not on that list of nice countries of yours and that I think that is well deserved. The government keeps refusing to let go of its oil-based, well, everyhing, and the people in general seem completely blinded by the promise of some new and revolutionary technological solution which will let us keep trucking along while changing nothing.
No more pretending that we are the good guys

[Kedai]

I took a course on market failures and it taught me that perfect competition was as much of a fiction as full communism.

[AnymMusic]

as a Dutchie, I've never understood the hatred for social safety nets. Especially since, at least here, even if you are an entrepreneur you can have a social safety net. And what this causes is more people willing to take risks on their own little company. Which then means more possible competition, more people willing to find/try out their green ideas, and eventually more possible work opportunities for others. (also, the Netherlands is absolutely not perfect here for bribery (lobbying), etc. shit, we're one of the biggest tax haven on earth. AND to add insult to injury, we're having a massive PFAS issue rn which apparently was already known SINCE THE 90s, and nothing was done about it, afaik, even to this day)

[niamhleeson]

Leaving China out of this video makes this analysis incomplete. China is a special case and deserves to be part of the analysis. What makes China different? First, there is no issue with the regulatory capture of the government. The government controls the markets and the economy, not the other way around, like we have in the US and arguably in the Nordic countries. This allows them to set goals and make sweeping changes in the economy when needed. Second, China is a country that hosts a huge portion of heavy and light industry. They make a lot of stuff there and export it to countries like the Nordic ones on your list. So, while emissions from the Nordic countries themselves are low, emissions produced making the things they consume in other countries are not part of this analysis. You could see manufacturing in other countries as an externality that produces carbon emissions. Third, the Chinese government has been taking steps to quickly draw down carbon emissions, including state-of-the-art mass manufacturing of solar panels, batteries, electric vehicles, and grid equipment like transformers. They have made such high quality products at such economies of scale that Western countries have placed huge tariffs on these goods even though they are necessary to mitigating the climate crisis. What's going on here is that our governments in Western countries are frantically trying to keep markets open, even though they're harmful to the environment and using Chinese goods would accelerate drawdown and save lives. This is in fact the main role of Western governments that are beholden to companies and the economy, instead of the other way around. China installed more renewable energy in solar panels last year than the US has in its entire history. Given this contrast, it's clear that capitalism is not equally up to the challenge of mitigating climate change.

[danilooliveira]

you forgot to mention that if you do a cost benefit analysis, it's better to polute even if it's illegal. because fines tend to be smaller than what those companies will save by polluting. meaning the punishment has to be much harsher. however the saddest part, is that if it's a publicly traded company, they don't care about these scandals, because the shareholders already got paid, the CEO got his quarterly bonus and will just resign and find another company to ruin, and and the stock price dropping is just an opportunity to make money. meaning capitalism incentivize companies to grow unsustainably until they explode even if they make the worst decisions possible... just look at boeing.

[SMorales]

A bit of tangent, but I feel the need to remind people that socialism is not, in fact, "when the government does stuff". Historically, the common thread between all socialist movements is the idea that "the economy" should be handled democratically.

The "government doing stuff" is a misconception that probably comes from bad faith arguments that sneakily swap out "democracy" with "government", since most people strongly associate the two concepts.

[saipremkumar]

This video (and Hazel's content in general) is like a Stand Up Comedian teaching us about Climate Economics and Policies.

I Hope you do more collaboration with her❤

[InfiniteDeckhand]

It absolutely is. The latest public statements from Exxon Mobil's CEO kinda say it all, it my opinion.

[amanofnoreputation]

High GDP means more stuff, not more _wealth._ Wealth is the actual payoff to producing material things: if you have ten cars, you can still only drive one of them at a time so the amount of wealth you've gain is tiny compared to the amount of productivity you flshed down the toilet and the amount of damage you've done to the climate.
This isn't "degrowth" it's reorganization i.e _pruning._

[olafzalm]

As a Dutchie. I do not at all recognize us to be a model country. Much of what I hear overhere is people distrusting our government, voting for more inequality and big companies and organizations lobbying against climate policy. I feel that we are heading in the wrong way.

[AcidCommunistAachen]

Wait, is your definition of Socialism unironically "when the government does stuff"?

[GustavoLadeira]

Yes, it most certainly is.
Next question please!

[trevinbeattie]

Awesome presentation! Substitute teachers can be hit or miss, but this was a home run. I’m impressed how you staved off some of the more common capitalist talking points I’ve heard.

(Though I’m still eager to see Simon again in his new studio.)