Jared Diamond - What Causes Religious Belief?

Religious belief is everywhere. Why so pervasive, ubiquitous across diverse human cultures? What motivates the universal belief in things we cannot see? Some say the reason is 'God'—assuming God exists, then surely God would have made it so that humans would have religion. Others assert there are entirely natural reasons to expect the widespread belief in God.



Jared Mason Diamond is an American scientist and author best known for his popular science books The Third Chimpanzee (1991), Guns, Germs, and Steel (1997), and Collapse: How Societies Choose to Fail or Succeed (2005).


Closer to Truth presents the world’s greatest thinkers exploring humanity’s deepest questions. Discover fundamental issues of existence. Engage new and diverse ways of thinking. Appreciate intense debates. Share your own opinions. Seek your own answers.

[PavelSTL]

Never heard of this guy but he was superb, enjoyed listening to what he had to say. When you leave aside political roles of religion, as well as propagation of values in the population, I would say the biggest factor for ubiquity of religion is a feature of our psychology: we don't like uncertainty. Our brains are evolved to be predictive machines: given such and such inputs, the brain anticipates what happens next. Whoever is better at predictions will, for obvious reasons, leave more offsprings. As a result, our brains don't like too much uncertainty, so they create uncomfortable psychological states which we try to get out of (e.g. cognitive dissonance). So if we can't find the answer, we're going to make one up, or listen to someone's "story", conspiracy theory, or whatever it takes to get ourselves back to certainty and comfort. Religion provides that comfortable level of certainty.

[SliversRebuilt]

As a skeptic of religious beliefs and a fan of Jared Diamond, I’m actually a bit surprised by the relatively narrow scope of some of his answers here. I suppose it’s just a consequence of the short-form format - and possibly Jared taking care not to venture into areas outside of his field - but I find it odd how little psychology or philosophy was discussed. Sure, religious belief is politically useful, but such an effect seems if anything secondary to the fundamental priority of religious belief, which is the dissolution of doubt. In Peirce’s “The Fixation of Belief, ” he notes with great insight that while we often fool ourselves into imagining that our primary goal in forming beliefs, and the point at which we consider them settled, is the arrival at a point of believing something which is true; instead, if we actually observe our behavior with regards to the proper functioning of belief in daily life, a belief is in fact settled once a state of uncertainty has been resolved - truth is a secondary concern at best. In this context, I would submit that it is precisely the inflexible and almost psychotically confident nature of religious belief which accounts primarily for its power, as it serves to dissolve doubt with respect to some of the most troubling ambiguities of human existence: death, moral consequence, a felt sense of personal meaning, etc.

That said, great discussion as usual. Thank you for your dedication to what can only be the most important enterprise.

[jonnanderson]

"I have found water before, if I keep looking I believe I will find water again."

[JeffChen]

As Husserl has found, one fundamental character of consciousness is intentionality. The next question is what is intentionality? Intentionality is a process in the human's brains to shorten the distance between desire and reality. Religious belief is such an extreme case that the distance between desire and reality equals to zero.

[johnv]

'Most chess players don't pray; most gamblers do.' Cool!

[SandipChitale]

The retreat of religions as explainers of natural phenomenon gives a hint. I think most will agree that in the past humans (in prehistoric times) did not understand the causes of many natural phenomenon around them. This was true all over the planet. Hence the ubiquity. Human's, being pattern seeking animals and agents themselves, desired explanations of these phenomenon in terms of agencies. The people who invented/imagined ideas to attribute agencies to such phenomenon and explanations, partly discovered (may be even to their delight and surprise) the power that came with it to be able to control other individuals. And to be fair may have also offered comfort in the face of uncertainty and distress. In historic times connections have been made to longing for transcendental. This created positive feedback loop. These were the proto-religions. The power aspect also played a social role as bigger groups of humans came together. The leaders of these groups saw the benefits of power afforded by religions and sponsored codification and formalization (e.g. Council of Nicaea). The power afforded by religions was qualitatively different from the military power or majority power, because of its supernatural and by definition super powerful source. The supernatural power can be claimed as infallible. This had a tremendous appeal. Thus came organized religions. And with the backing of the ruling class and accompanied military powers it was possible to spread the religions (e.g crusades and missions etc). It grew into a symbiosis between governance and religions.

In the modern world science has mostly replaced religions as explainer of natural phenomenon. Most religions, sometimes kicking and screaming, have accepted science's role in this area. The inertia of success of religions, their wealth and use in aquiring political power, is carrying them forward still and have been left to mostly to play social and political role in human societies and in some cases stake a claim on morality.

[davidjayhalabecki]

Just imagine being a tribal prince who just lost his father, the Chief, to an inexplicable death. Days later, this prince awakens from a vivid dream of seeing his father back from the dead, telling him to fear not, now it is up to you to lead our people. This is the origin of ghost worship. As time progresses into the future this ghost concept has evolved to a spirit concept and so forth to good and evil spirits, and all kinds of semispirits, monsters, angels, devils, demigods, on and on. Until one day.. The plateau of monotheism has been reached. All along the way, the slow and painful evolution of people and our planet has brought us chapter after chapter of religious bloodshed and debased ritual, the gods have been within our minds and have been conditioning our souls to the extent that we shall one day achieve a dignity that would allow us to bargain with these invisible and intangible spirit forces. Even the most hardened atheist can still behave Godlike. Just as the ordained priest, with all his theological education, can molest the innocent. Animals and humans share the same origin. It is the inner urge to worship and the insatiable quest for wisdom that separates humans from their animal cousins. Fear and ignorance are the great grandparents of religion. However, religious living does soften the rigors and monotony for daily life. People should disagree, life is too dynamic just to be uniform and one sided. It's ok to allow yourself into fits of religious day dreaming, it's natural for the mind to invision a better existence. The brotherhood of human kind is unattainable without the fatherhood of a personal God. Don't let the immensity and magnitude of an infinite universe stagger or discourage you in your childlike belief that YOU BELONG HERE.

[mockupguy]

Cave Boy: Dad. What are lightings? Dad? Daaad! DAAD!?

Cave Dad: it is the mighty bolt hurler. And if you don’t sleep he’ll throw one at you.

Boy: Bolturler? Who is that?

[EatPieYes]

We all put our faith in something, probably more things than one would like to admit, because our understanding of ourselves and our surrounding world is by default limited. From this point of view it doesn't matter if you're religious or not because it's part of our being to make simple, shallow explanations of things that are too complicated to understand at the present moment.

[farhadfaisal]

So, does this imply that, at the individual level, mainly the ever present factors of anxiety in the face of uncertainty, like, the potential dangers to life, or death --- and a desire to counter them emotionally --- could provide a basis for the origin of religion in human society?
And, at a collective level, could it be the tenacious influence of early conditioning on most individuals in a family and/or in public institutions (mostly enjoying the support of the elite) could be behind the persistence or prevalence of specific religions in larger and more organized societies?
Are we closer to truth, if not the Truth?

[xspotbox]

I never heard of cave painting displaying religious believes before, would like to see reference to that first because those paintings depict simple, common things stone age artists felt they were important. There were no circles, lines or other forms of geometry simply because they didn't understand any mathematical regularities. Circles are very rare in nature, most of the times look like blobs and ellipsoids. Straight lines are way more common, but only because some physical principles can't avoid them, like shapes of crystals or flat horizon. Infinitely small dots were also a nonsense because they didn't understand balance and tension, things doesn't appear like they have some origin or virtual center. And pictures of animals were drown like silhouettes and shadows, this is how art of drawing was invented, darker areas were perceived as sorts of imprints, like shadow is a color nature use to make things stand out over general reality. How would we even know religious picture, it should show some ritual and symbol. Print of a hand palm is not a symbol, it's an impression, they were tracking foot prints of animals during hunting, so those shapes corresponded with identity of an animal. And first people didn't think they were any special, many think human is just another animal as today, it was more natural to see obvious similarities than small differences. Fact is, you need organized community and rituals to share simple, meaningful ideas, and none of that was possible at early age of humanity.
Except one phenomena, those artists were most likely religious animals since they could make clear distinctions from imaginary visions to real events in their minds. Individuals understood thing are not always what they seems to be, so they begin to search and explore the world with their new mind eyes. This was just a beginning, let me put this in another way, what makes some animals domesticated and different from their relatives living in wilds? Dogs and cats doesn't mind sharing living space with humans, you can never live in harmony with wolves or tigers. It like our animal food and pat comic reliefs also became religious.

[Simon.the.Likeable]

Some duplicitous religious types attempt to obfuscate their religion by claiming a relationship with their deity.

[jamesnasmith]

Groups of the same confession don’t wage war against each other?

[metoo]

Jared Diamond Denise that the fact the feeling of belonging could trigger hitters, discrimination and well to kill.

[dakrontu]

The idea of sacrificing one's life for one's god and believing one will be recompensed with eternal bliss has worked its 'charm' as a successful meme across many religions and cultures. There is however a difference between belief (conveyed as one or more memes) and truth. As far as the spread of a meme goes, it matters not one jot whether it is true, all that matters is that it be believed. It is an error to make any assumption about the existence of a god based on the 'benefits' to the society of some religious belief.
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In our modern age, we have realised how beliefs spread as memes, it is a natural mechanism that applies to us as a species because he have the mental capacity to provide the environment in which memes can exist, and the communication capacity to spread them. We are therefore able to contemplate, as a species, rather than as a few isolated individuals who occasionally saw the light, the predicament we find ourselves in, as a conveyancing environment for memes that, expressed in words, have no sentience, no agenda, no guarantee of truth, they simply exist because they happen to replicate and spread well.
.
It is impossible to be free of memes, but at least an awareness can mildly relieves their toxic nature. Except that we have invented a technology, the internet, which has spawned mass social media far more pervasive than oral traditions, printing presses, public libraries, and pulpits, inadvertently ratcheting up the power of memes.

[SC-fknc]

Jared Diamond is such an interesting man to learn from, wonderful inquisitive and analytical mind.
Great video!

[philipfarnam]

From A Voyage Long and Strange by Tony Horwitz © 2008, here’s well-known minister, Peter Gomes’, response when commenting on our national misapprehension of Thanksgiving, the Pilgrims, and about Plymouth being acknowledged nation-wide (erroneously) as the first American settlement: “Myth is more important than history. History is arbitrary, a collection of facts. Myth we choose, we create, we perpetuate. The story may not be correct but it transcends truth. It’s like religion – beyond facts. Myth trumps fact, always does, always has, always will.” Myth transcends truth and facts? Really? Well, there’s a telling observation upon the American mentality! It’s also interesting that it was spoken by a cleric of acknowledged credibility and high standing. Seems rather an admission, doesn’t it?

[danremenyi]

Jared didn't do too well here. What gives religious so much power? The insecurity of the masses? The support of religion has the support of the elite. The human love of mystery? The human need for cohesion? There are many and Jared did not seem to understand what he was being asked.

[dorisdoris]

Religious belief likely arose through fear and awe of nature: the mountain started to roar and then suddenly spewed out lava that destroyed the village, or most of it. Obviously some unseen entity was angry; and this was its manifestation. So placate it: offer it flowers and food, and then maybe show you really respect it by offering it something you really treasure - like a virgin.perhaps? Most indigenous cultures voted in their leader, gods weren't necessary. But kings were something else. The only way to ensure loyalty was to bring in the old idea of god's will, and the fatalistic idea that everything is the will of god. If someone had the power to force their will on the majority, that was god's will working through them. Then the idea of "the chosen one", the secret rites etc., and the emotional high that ensues from such primitive ideas, took hold and people willingly did terrible things for and in the name of that "high". 
There are other reasons and factors, but I believe this outline is basic.
'

[lgm]

Did anyone else feel that he didn't answer the question? I thought the question was how and why religious belief, where did it come from? I thought that was the actual core of the question.