Ayn Rand Fan Debates ‘Objectivism’ With Sam

Ayn Rand. She will never, ever go away. She lives eternally through the dementedly hostile policy positions she has memorialized in her books. A listener calls in because Rand's "Atlas Shrugged" was mentioned on the program on Monday, and similar to the consequences of saying "Beetlejuice" or "Bloody Mary" out loud, if you speak the name of one of Rand's books on air for any reason, you have to discuss it again, preferably in an argument. This time, the argument is about Objectivism, which is the caller's political affiliation. It was created by Ayn Rand.

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Caller: Objectivism is an entire philosophy. That's one thing — it's not just a political philosophy.
Emma Vigeland: Also it's a religion, too.
Caller: No it's not my religion.
Sam Seder: Yeah, tell me what it is, not just what it isn't.
Caller: Okay, so there's five branches of philosophy and I could go through and just actually Ayn Rand was actually asked can you say what Objectivism is while standing on one foot and she did that once. There's an article called "Introducing Objectivism" which you can find on the internet and she does this so I can give you the brief standing-on-one-foot version. So in metaphysics, the view of what is the fundamental nature of reality is... she thinks there's just one world; there's no supernatural world; there's no god; it's just this world, which we perceive with our senses, in which we understand with our reason. And then second branch epistemology, in other words the study of the nature of knowledge. She's pro-reason; so she's anti-faith, which makes her anti-religion. She only believes in what you can prove by logic and reason and evidence of your senses. And then third branch: ethics. How should we live? She thinks... she believes in a morality of rational self-interest. So you should do what's best for yourself right while respecting the rights of others. Neither sacrificing yourself to others, nor others for yourself. The final branch...
SS: Now that would you say that third branch the one about um pursuing your own self-interests... that one's when we start getting into politics a little bit, right?
Caller: Yeah, so she believes in individual rights. In her last branch, political philosophy, she believes in capitalism. And the way she understands that I think it's often smeared today, but how she understands it is that you can't initiate force against other people. If you did that, you would be violating their rights. You can do whatever you want as long as you don't use physical force against other people.
SS: Right? The non-aggression policy, right?
Caller: That's what the libertarians sometimes call it. She didn't use that phrase. Sometimes it's called the non-initiation of force principle.
SS: Fair enough, fair enough. Now, these are things that you subscribe to, too, right? I mean she's just the person who came up with this stuff. You don't perceive her as some type of like demigod or anything?
EV: Or like a deity, right? Since it's not religious in nature.
Caller: I mean I admire her tremendously. I don't think she's like a supernatural being.
SS: Okay but I mean in terms of like just non-supernatural beings she's right up there, right? Like I mean she's almost, almost supernatural. She's like Plato, basically, right? I think she was a heroic person and she lived very...
SS: Did it bum you out when you found out that she she took Social Security?

[Crylar]

- If you were stuck on an island but you got to bring one thing, what would it be?
- I would bring an employer, I would be better off with someone taking the exploits of my labor.
Brilliant take dude.

[WillCrigler]

I imagine him creating a boss made out coconuts to order him around the island.

[Junebug]

"I love the idea of a desert island but there's an employer there". This is the TRUE capitalist realism lmao. Forget imagining a world without capitalism, you can't even imagine a deserted island without capitalism.

[canadian]

“You are alone on an island, but there is an employer” Talk about being the most unlucky person in the world!

[powerboonk]

"are you a libertarian?"
"No, an objectivist."

Sam gets an instant semi.

[hadara]

"There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year-old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs."
~John Rogers

[leydon]

The only thing worse than being alone with a boss on an island is being alone with a military recruiter on an island.

[williamjameslehy]

Ayn Rand fans are the dictionary definition of "confidently incorrect".

[TheMotiveDJ]

The fact Ayn Rand's "me before my community" philosophy got taken seriously at all is what made getting through a pandemic a lot harder than it needed to be.

[bierce]

For those who don't know this same guy called in complaining a week earlier to "talk about their youtube chat policy" because someone called him "impotent" and instead they just made fun of him for ten minutes. So now we know Dan believes wholeheartedly in objectivism but thinks podcasts should diligently regulate their youtube chats to provide him with a safe space. You're a piece of work, Dan.

[TheDoneDingo]

It's really interesting that he puts himself in the position philanthropist even when asked to put himself in the position of poor unemployed

[lewa]

Objectivism sounds like cowardice, considering the number of times dan ran away from the points Sam, Emma & Matt made

[gaybuzzlightyear]

Ayan Rand: “I can recite bullshit while standing on one foot.”

Libertarians: “🤯🤯🤯 GENUIS!”

[matiasyannuzzi]

"Imagine you're alone on an island"
*hardcore Vaush flashbacks start*

[hollandscottthomas]

He's conflating "work" (employment) with "work" (labor), and they're not the same thing.
Like, yeah, you need to labor to gather food and make shelter. But you're not employed by the island.
Also, LOL at defaulting to having an employer rather than an employee in this scenario. Your brain didn't immediately think "it would be nice to have some help with this labor" instead of "if only I could do twice the work to support someone else telling me what to do".

[hotlinemiamifan]

he wrote down the quote. that's how much this shook him.

[KznnyL]

The only question about Libertarianism is how many questions a Libertarian can answer before their philosophy breaks down. Usually it is between 3-5 before they enter the ThunderDome.

[mynthecooldude]

Objectivism "morality of self-interest" for 5-year-olds.

[dragondaddy]

Dan: "Let me see if I can think this through"
Narrator: "He couldn't"

[eac]

These “debates” are the best thing on YT