Japanese vs German Knives

[AndyinMokum]

When I was in culinary school back in the 80s, my knife skills were focused around western knives. The school had their own forged high carbon steel knives. The students were taught to sharpen and maintain these knives using Schrade USA Whet-Hone Pro 3-Way Sharpening Systems. This was the oil stone method using three grades of stone, from coase to super fine. It's a great way of sharpening knives. Unfortunately, the school's knives suffered from student cooks. Many of the knives looked more like bananas than knives. I had my own set of Henckels, God I loved those knives. After 15 years of working in kitchens around the world, I discovered daylight and weekends and found I liked them both a lot. I gave up working as a commercial cook/chef. I still love using decent knives. I love doing prep work so having the right tools is essential.

I wish I had more exposure to Japanese knives when I was working commercially. I use them now and find them a delight. They have a refinement that even to best Henckel or Wusthof can't match. Yeah there is a learning curve, especially if you come from a western knife environment. It's not as steep as many people will have you believe. The feedback from the knife, will tell you when you're using the right techniques. Maintenance is a little different. You've both double and single edged blades to contend with. I now only use water whetstones to sharpen my knives. Only because I've become used to it. I like clad VG-10 steel knives and the water whetstones work great with this steel. It's not really any more difficult to sharpen than the softer German steels. It's more about technique, just as it is with using Japanese style knives opposed to western style knives. Use a Japanese hard steel knife in the same way as a softer steel western knife and you'll find the experience horrible. Learn how use the Japanese techniques and the experience is wonderful. My personal preference now is using japanese style knives. I wish I had them when I was cooking commercially. For me, it would have made life in the kitchen a whole lot easier.

[Prodigious]

as a chef I use japenese and german knives I prefer Japanese For fine slicing german knifes I use for sectioning game birds chicken cutting darnes of round fish etc as need heavy duty. also I using a knife up 12 hours a day it's different from your home user . plus some places you work at best to have only few knives . paring knives always go missing so we tend only buy cheaper paring knives eg Swiss plastic handle type from well know army knife maker

[christianschill]

I'm a passionate hobby cook. A good german chefs knife, F.Dick that I have, does all it needs in any kitchen. I have one other german Windmühle and two japanese Kasumis and two Kasumi stones. ALL knives are good and taken good care of. Japanese knifes are for us western a kind of passion, probably preferable if you cut raw fish in thin slices all day long. In Thailand I've seen people cook wonderful meals with 2 Dollar knives. Perfect cooking. We make a hype out of a passion for knifes. But that's ok. :-)

[Boulevardfree]

Thanks for all the informative vids!
Question from a German with no sentimental attachment to his "own" traditions (yet with a strong and IMHO justified attachment to the robustness discourse):

Do you know of any attempts to create a German-Japanese chimera (best of both worlds) in the following way that I'd consider optimal? I'm not enthusiastic about the Dalstrong, though it's a start.

-German chef knife side profile so as to enable rocking as well as chopping motions (overall versatility is imperative)
-Japanese mentality upper blade geometry (thin body for easy glide-through and low weight)
-Comnination of German virtues (robustness>peak hardness) and Japanese virtues (hardness/edge retention) for choice of core steel. In the age of diamond abrasives there is no longer a good reason to go for ease-of sharpening at the expense of an optimal How about a CPM-3V blade core or something similar that can sustain a thin edge without having to be babied chipping-wise. Hard enough for sharpness and edge retention that beats 90% of German knives, more robust than 90% of the Japanese edges (enough for me to have unaltered blood pressure when the kids use it)
-Japanese-style sandwiching of said core supersteel for oxidation protection
-German-style handle and full tang because 2019 (no offense to the Japanese tradition)


I want a knife that cuts and holds its edge better than most Germans, but still has sufficient robustness, ergonomics and versatility. So I pledge for a core super steel that has very high robustness (so it can withstand random family life challenges at thin-edge geometry), as-high-as-possible hardness to hold that edge for long, and pays the price for these virtues in sharpenabilty because we live in a diamond abrasive age and can now combine robustness and performance without making the resulting optimal knife impossible to sharpen at home. Neither the German nor the Japanese knives are good enough today as pure plays. The Germans are unnecessarily soft and dull, the Japanese unnecessarily fragile and unergonomic.


Thanks for your thoughts and best regards, the naive knife-messiah

[squatch]

Could you do a video on the difference between the different shapes of knives e.g. santoku, deba, gyuto, nakiri, honsuki, etc. and what they are used for? Thanks.

[sonkekoster]

I think there is no clear winner. It depends greatly on the personal perference how to use a knife. I admire the high end blade especially with damascus finish for thier beauty. But the harder the blade get - the more I must care for it. There is always a trade off.

[waynedowning]

Excellent series. You have answered many of my concerns and curiosities. Thank you again.

[MichaelsPwner]

Could we get a video talking about the differences between the different blade edges? The pros and cons of single edge, 50/50, and 70/30?

[HarrySatchelWhatsThatSmell]

This is a great video. No BS. Just full of useful info.

[brendenjohnston]

I think we just need some more European companies making more vintage and perfected stylish knives. Europe used to have the best steel shaping methods and culture when it came to blades, on the scale of Japanese smithing, but now Europe doesn’t care about its professionalism.

[dannymoro]

Thanks Ryky for your videos. Your passion and sincerity comes across. I started a google search regarding sharpening knives about a month ago a found your channel. Needless to say I have learned a lot ! After my research I decided to buy a Mac Chef Knife MTH 80 along with its recommended roll sharp sharpener. It came up multiple times as the best chef knife in my search. Interestingly, I could not find your take on it. This is my first expensive knife purchase and I am really looking forward to using it (and taking care of it) Not sure I am ready to use a wetstone yet --I need a garage like you (: But will definitely keep watching and learning from you Ryky . Appreciate what you are doing !! --danny moro

[RovingPunster]

REGARDING BOLSTERS: I gotta say, I've really grown to dislike the old fashioned bolsters like the one on the Dalstrong (0:25). Personally, I find them an obsolete annoyance on anything other than say certain types of boning knives intended for forceful use on large primals. Every time I walk through a department store and hear some college student behind the counter waxing poetic about bolsters to some slack jawed holiday shopper who's even more clueless than they are, I can't help but grimace. My trusty old Wusthof Trident 10" chef had one, and after 2 decades of wear and tear I finally got fed up and had to backfile it out of the way with a lapping plate, in order to continue maintaining the edge, which they inevitably get in the way of. The increased toughness rating of many types of modern "super" steel have rendered this feature even more obsolete than it already was with the advent of modern surgical steel several decades ago.

[casefarley]

This is helpful and informative. No Global knives make the cut for any of your recommendations - is there a specific reason or just general preference? I use them and like them but am open to alternatives; I prefer the hybrid Japanese knives and there are more options now than ever before. That dalstrong shogun x looks like my jam.

[mrcuryslaboratory]

in the words of the great Gucci Mane, "BURR!"

[DeepestBlueJ]

In my culinary course the chef showed us how to "sharpen" knives. Using a super course oil stone and a steel. The technique was all wrong. I was cringing the whole time... Most of my classmates have no clue about how to take care of their knives... Makes me wonder why they're in the culinary program haha.

[Shane-Singleton]

I usually believe that there is a right tool for any task. However when it comes to my budging interest into higher end cutlery I am willing to accept a good "jack of all trades" I like to pinch when I cut. And also rock on the board. So I definitely think the western style is better suited to my technique (or lack thereof) as it seems to be a more forgiving design in terms of hardness.

[isu]

Shit man thanks for all the info!!! I'll try not to rock my Japanese knives from now on!! Btw it would be great if you do a review of the Miyabi birchwood line, I spent a couple of hundreds bucks on 3 of their knives and actually I'm quite loving them however it will be great to listen to your opinion. Keep the great job!! Cheers!

[AGC]

At home....western foods--German knives (or German builds by JP or Chinese brands). Eat a lot of Sushi at home? OFC JP knives. Though, if you have good knife skills you could just go with German styled knives. Just need "sharp enough" knives. My mother and someone I know could do all the delicate cutting (e.g. paper thin sheets of vegetable, "food sculpture"...) using German knives and tools. JP knives help some one with "lesser skills" slice thin where they couldn't with a robust but sharp German knife....again, some people are that good...where they can.


In JP restaurants they use JP knives...tradition/culture. I think it's "expected". Not sure they would "allow" German knives to be used.

[Fritziecola]

takeda makes tall knives from aogami super steel. hap40 is a high speed tool steel not really designed for kitchen knives and is overkill with high wear resistance. Just the latest super steel fad. Plunge line on henckels looks like a nightmare to sharpen as knife wears. It is well known forged knives are in fact insuperior to stamped high quality knives like misono. Swedish make sharpest stainless 12c27, 14c28n, 13c26. They get as sharp or nearly as sharp as my masamoto white steel #2 nakiri and hiromoto aogami super gyuto.
Western knives are for those who are rough on knives and best value is victorinox; nice and thin and better than many expensive german blades. Stone use is essential as you must eventually address the primary and secondary bevels to retain the cutting geometry on all knives. French knives like sabitier have less belly than german.

[Keldrath]

I just wonder why it is that it's always japanese vs german and everyone forgets chinese exists.