Robert Lustig: 'Processed Food, Metabolism, and The Ills of Society' | The Great Simplification #69

(Conversation recorded on April 11, 2023)

Show Summary:

In this episode, Dr. Robert Lustig joins Nate to dive into the metabolism of the micro level of human systems - the humans ourselves. Over the last century, accompanying the transformation of our energy systems, our food and consumption patterns have been massively transformed. One of the biggest areas of change is the dramatic increase in sugar consumption. But are our bodies adapted to eating such high sugar, processed foods? What are the health effects connected to this way of eating? And, writ large, how does our metabolic dysfunction as individuals contribute to the energy hungry global Superorganism? What are the systemic drivers that currently prevent a shift towards healthier food systems? Can changing how we eat make us healthier - and thus better equipped to face the complex challenges of the metacrisis?

About Robert Lustig:

Robert H. Lustig, M.D., M.S.L. is Emeritus Professor of Pediatrics in the Division of Endocrinology, and Member of the Institute for Health Policy Studies at UCSF. Dr. Lustig is a neuroendocrinologist, with expertise in metabolism, obesity, and nutrition. He is one of the leaders of the current “anti-sugar” movement that is changing the food industry. He has dedicated his retirement from clinical medicine to help to fix the food supply any way he can, to reduce human suffering and to salvage the environment. Dr. Lustig graduated from MIT in 1976, and received his M.D. from Cornell University Medical College in 1980. He also received his Masters of Studies in Law (MSL) degree at University of California, Hastings College of the Law in 2013. He is the author of the popular books Fat Chance (2012), The Hacking of the American Mind (2017), and Metabolical: The Lure and the Lies of Processed Food, Nutrition, and Modern Medicine (2021).

00:00 - Guest Introduction
01:38 - What did Robert eat for breakfast?
02:20 - Overview of Metabolical: The Lure and Lies of Processed Food, Nutrition and Modern Medicine
05:50 - Mitochondria and Fructose
09:55 - Comparing two diets
11:40 - Gatorade
13:20 - Parallels to Nate’s work
14:34 - Energy
15:14 - Sugar
15:58 - Trans fats
20:58 - PFAS
21:48 - Obesogens
24:36 - NOVA system
27:50 - Tongue desensitization
28:56 - Chemical and behavioral addictions
32:09 - Connections between alcohol and fructose
35:56 - Robert’s medical practice
37:51 - Autophagy
40:18 - Eliminating metabolic syndrome
44:08 - Changing the healthcare industry
46:40 - Is high sugar intake a personal problem or the corporation's fault?
48:05 - Lucretian swerve
49:38 - Food subsidies
54:12 - Removing subsidies
56:32 - Breaking up monocultures
57:20 - Reducing greenhouse gasses
1:00:02 - CAFOS
1:01:44 - Antibiotics
1:04:40 - Gut microbiomes
1:07:56 - IFIC
1:11:05 - Growing in soil v. dirt
1:15:20 - Selective Breeding
1:16:58 - Advice to minimize metabolic syndromes
1:19:26 - Advice for young people
1:23:14 - What Robert cares most about
1:24:13 - Robert’s magic wand
1:24:40 - What’s next?

[marionalbergo]

Dr Lustig deserves the Nobel Prize for his research and dedication over the past decades. A calorie is NOT a calorie…..

[juelix]

I don't know what this channel is, but this lecture alone makes me want to subscribe! Thabk you! 🥰

[vickikleist]

This is the man that caused me to really look at what I was ingesting and how much it had to do with how I was feeling. I am 100% a sugar addict and have used this term long before I heard him talk on the subject. I labeled my Grandmother as one many years ago.
I am not 100% there yet but have given up almost all processed foods and a big one was anything containing Gluten. I was a chronic migraine/cluster headache sufferer since childhood ( averaging 3 a week) . I have had exactly one mild headache since I made this change. When I eat poorly the arthritis pain returns to my hands and knees as well as Gerd flareups worsening along with eczema.
I am convinced but it is hard to give up the habits of a lifetime even though my body benefits.. the brain still craves the garbage.
I am most concerned with the risk of diabetes and heart disease. I am recommitting myself after this talk. Thanks Nate from a fellow Wisconsinite.

[keithomelvena]

This interview needs millions of views, not thousands.

[TheFlyingBrain.]

Nate, thank you so much for posting this interview. Everyone that we each of us care about needs to listen to this about 10x. I've been eating whole foods, predominantly organic, for 50 years, and I can tell you it has really paid off. I weigh 111 lbs, am 5'3", have no chronic diseases and never get sick, despite MN weather, and all the coughing and sniffling that goes on here from Fall to Spring. In pursuing improvements to my own health, I became highly suspicious of anything processed or unnatural in 1973, and as a result I never ate margarine (and never used teflon). PFOS notwithstanding, it's never too late to start eating real food.

I made my career in natural health back when the movement first began on the West coast and we called it "holistic." I can say with confidence that anyone can turn their health around and stay healthy just by eating what grows out of the ground -- especially healthy, nutrient rich, composted living soil.

Americans are biochemically addicted, but what underlies all of that is that Americans habitually use food as a substitute for feeling their emotions, and learning how to deal with them responsibly in a healthy way. Half of what underlies the average dietary problem is using food as a mood crutch.

Once you get rid of all the processed food and sugar, it takes about 3 months of sticking with it to get over the worst of the cravings. 90 days, folks. It's not nearly the horrible ordeal that everyone makes it out to be. That is, if you stick with it. And especially the first 3 mos to a year, depending on the state of your health when you began, there can be no snitching -- no little "treats" and exceptions. Once you regain stable metabolic health, you might be able to cheat -- but it's unlikely you'll even want to... But if you go back to eating as you did before, all the cravings will come right back. So will the weight, and so will the bad health.

Sorry, that's just the way it is. You have to choose one or the other: feeling great because you're genuinely healthy, or living the American life of pretense, addiction, obesity and ill health.

You can make it easier on yourself with good Chinese medicine from a qualified Chinese doctor + acupuncture, to help your digestive organs start working properly again. And I recommend finding help learning how to stop repressing your feelings, and how to responsibly deal with communicating feelings as a way life. Instead of using food to shove them away.

Hope this helps somebody.

BTW, feeding my dogs zero anything processed, all whole, real food, according to what they evolved to eat (it's different than what humans need -- you need to study up to do it right) worked beautifully for them, too. Shiney coats, healthy, energetic, beautiful teeth, sweet breath, smelled lovely all the time without any perfumed shampoos.

[valeriereinhard]

I devoured the book Metabolical. It completely changed how I saw health overall, and I reference it frequently. I’m not medically trained in any way, but Dr. Lustig makes sense, and I’m so grateful for his work.

[dankoepp]

Dear Nate, Mr. Lustig, yourself and Mr. Michael Pollen in a Podcast would just be out of this world.

[BobQuigley]

Corporate greed is government mandated here. Poisoned our system of governance as we worship the golden calf. Root cause of many of our problems. Another great interview, thanks

[dustinhamman]

I watched Dr. Lustig's presentation "Sugar: The Bitter Truth" well over a decade ago. Made a big impact on my life. Great to see you have him on Nate. Your sharing this may well save someone's life. (Hopefully many someone's.)

[elrionile]

Two of my favourite human beings (that I listen to on the internet) I've been a huge fan of Dr. Lustig since November 2013! 💯

[merriannewest]

I've been following Robert Lustig for a long time, but this was my first encounter with Nate Hagens. It was really encouraging to see this interaction between two highly intelligent, well-informed, and concerned citizens.

[nitrosquid]

Such a smart man who knows how to explain this topic so anyone can understand.

[tomronan]

I love listening to dr. LUSTIG AND Nate Haggens asks all the right questions. Great interview. God bless you both.

[brushstroke]

Yes, sugar is THE gateway drug. It was my first drug as well, eating lots of candy and drinking lots of soda from an early age. I think alcoholism is also basically a sugar addiction. I didn't keep drinking after being buzzed because I wanted to get more buzzed, but rather because it started to feel like a hunger for more.

[mrrecluse]

Nate's YouTube videos have been the shot in the arm I needed, for my own education. Great, thanks to both men.

[pburt]

There are truly no words to say about this podcast but… WOW! this is unbelievable! Thank you!! ❤️🙏

[tarikcamacho]

@Nate Hagens, I've been watching a lot of Dr. Lustig and many other luminaries on the subject, but this one is certainly the best. The way you drove and led him was very impressive and in the end you got the best of the best that he has to offer. You are a very smart person. Congratulations. My gratitude for this incredible work that you have done here. Greetings from Sao Paulo, Brazil

[soliver]

I have learned a lot from just watching Roberts various videos. Dr. Lustig provides excellent information presented such that we can understand the complexity of the human cell. The key is that he distills the complicated down to the essential facts. 👍🏽👍🏽👍🏽👍🏽

[Hee-op]

I appreciate every word Dr. Robert lusting says, thank you for this interview.

[jackchang]

Dr. Lusting is so knowledgeable. Nate the program host knows how to ask great questions to dig out the wisdom of Dr. Lusting. Great podcast!