What Makes Support and Jungle DIFFICULT?

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#challenger #leagueoflegends #azzapp

[khanhvan]

people have this weird notion of “better micro mechanics = better at the game”, and champions with so-called more flashy mechanics are believed to be less elo inflated. which is weird, because while micro does matter, macro is just inherently more conclusive to the outcome of a game. ironically, players of mechanically difficult champions tend to be caught up in making flashy plays to get as many kills as possible and in the process ignore the bigger picture that is macro

[alliu]

What a lot of lane players don’t understand is that while they are busy learning their flashy plays, jungle and support players are busy learning how every single lane is supposed to work, how to effectively roam around the map, how to effectively use and deny vision, how every single lane matchup is supposed to go, and predicting the lane state by the time they are ready to gank. So on and so forth. The skills that go into playing jungle and support are not flashy nor immediately visible. A good jungler and good support make plays that blend seamlessly into the other laners’ win. It’s so seamless that most players don’t even realize it. A bad jungler and bad support, however, is immediately obvious.

[Kingofredeyes]

Game has 3x micro players telling the 2x macro players they are better than them.

The old saying "sometimes the majority means only the fools that are dumb enough to follow" comes to mind.

[zackikyu]

As a Thresh support main I feel very validated, thank you big Z

[kklap]

Pointless to argue about this. Theres already emerald players in comments saying "but i fill jgl and i stomp". Anecdotal evidence goes brrrr.

[flameofthegame]

Early levels supports dictate the lane, especially the higher elo you go, so saying support is easy is kind of disingenuous, its easier mechanically depending on what you play (and that applies to every role ), but if you play Thresh, Pyke the role is defiantly is not easy .

[Childofthelost]

Started playing League this March, and I play support because I think it’s fun. But holy cow, being a support main is so hard lol. I do think it’s made me better when I get filled to the other lanes, but it’s hard work

[litlsteps]

personally I think the argument should be Support & Jungle are the easiest to 'Learn' the game but the hardest to 'Master'. if you think about it, both of those roles makes the 3 remaining roles 'Shine' throughout the game. that's why a lot of people appreciates good support & jungle like the former SKT Bengi or the current Keria.

[Zakaarus]

you’re gonna feel the effects of a good or bad support, but it’s going to be hard to pinpoint compared to other roles because AN ALLY HAS BEEN SLAIN narrated loudly with bot lane’s mugshot all over the scene of the crime is very different from THE ENEMY TEAM HAS SLAIN THE DRAGON with a roar after the dragon pit has been gray the entire game

[RobVice]

I am quite terrible at mechanical plays, but I climb because my macro is much better. Knowing timers and predicting tempo of the game and doing preparations (such as providing and denying vision) for objectives is more important than chasing kills. This is what a lot of support players dismiss. Also botlane diff is usually defined by supports and not adcs. That’s why I love playing jungle and support as I have direct impact on the game. Other roles feel like I have no agency in the game, especially top and adc lol.

[hackysac]

Here's the truth, in high so they are "easier" as they are easier to manipulate the game into your favor, every roles difficulty is ignored in challenger as you are already good at the game, so the difficulty is in how hard the role is to win with. Secondly in LOW elo talking silver and down maybe low gold it's easy to play IF you are playing the right champions as the role becomes easier to pull off. Things like warwick or zac in the jungle or blitzcrank or nautilus in support. They enable the plays innately in their kit and inspire you to play the way you should for your role without making it an extra step. The roles are at their hardest in the middle ranks as it's more difficult with more going on, players start learning what you tend to do and being to counterplay it so now you have to actually begin learning not only the correct way but also how to win against the counterplay as well.

[InfernoTune]

I can tell this person mains none of those lanes to have that take. If you start looking into what it takes to be a good jungler and what it takes to be a good support, you need to know so much stuff that may seem super unimportant to others. Things like "does their jungler start red or blue? Is his early good or does he scale? Does he focus on grubs and herald or does ge want to play for drakes? Where is he in his jgl?"

[kunkudunk]

Honestly my recent experience the lower ranks have players with great micro skill but their macro holds them back. As I climb back up the ranks I find laning phase gets easier (to a point anyway) but people are at least trying to put more thought into the whole game state

[dalemackenzie]

I've never heard anyone except my brother say jungle is an easy role. The entire economy system is totally different to any other role, then it's so easy to see that enemy jungler has more kp, more dragons/grubs/rift. Which i do know is a deal more intricate than that, but in lower echelons of play, it's a lot easier to sneak it.

[drake]

Well from that guy's perspective and a lot of lower elo yes, you can search jungle route and champion and do fine, if you die in the jungle it only affects you and getting kills over the enemy jungle is only a gain, easing pressure for a laner is a gain for jungler.
Support on the other hand is always on a deficit; no/less gold, behind in levels, etc and sacrificed for control in the game that they spend their gold on. You mess up and you're either a tank and might make it out, or you have heals and shields and might make it. Even the mage supports bring CC and can hopefully execute their own combo, but if they get dove and die 3v1 and get a kill it's good, especially if it's the enemy support who got the kill as long as it's not a shutdown. You also got a friendly in lane who wants to dictate the pace so you just wait for baby to decide and that is usually Help Push! or Don't Touch! so you just shrug and let it go.

In other words to people who don't know you're a poor guy who just runs around and sometimes show up somewhere else to get their groove out of wack 😂

[They_Call_Me_HeartFace]

That's mostly why I kinda wish more characters such as Bard, Shen, TF existed.

They are, literally, champs so macro-based that unless you learn it you wouldn't put the 100% of your champ to good use.

[cortoepinto]

Thank you, Azzap, for the recognition! -Yuumi main

[Iminbrawl]

Those two roles get the most opportunities per game to make fights where you have a number advantage aka ganks which is obviously one of the easiest ways to get a lead and win

[grymns]

A good support/jungle can seem like they are everywhere all at once (minus during/early laning phase)

[jonathanrussell]

As a jungle and support player I appreciate this