InPresence 0190: Modernism and Postmodernism

Jeffrey Mishlove reflects upon the meanings implicit in modernist and post-modernist movements of the past 130 years or so. He describes the influence of psychoanalysis, depth psychology, and quantum physics upon art, literature, and culture. Citing the poet, T. S. Eliot, he proposes that we are engaged in a journey that will take us back to the earliest origins of human thought – only to recognize it for the first time.

New Thinking Allowed host, Jeffrey Mishlove, PhD, is author of The Roots of Consciousness, Psi Development Systems, and The PK Man. Between 1986 and 2002 he hosted and co-produced the original Thinking Allowed public television series. He is the recipient of the only doctoral diploma in "parapsychology" ever awarded by an accredited university (University of California, Berkeley, 1980).

(Recorded on August 28, 2020)

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[therfm]

I recently traveld abroad and upon returning home find myself in a two week mandatory quarantine during which I have really gotten into taking baths and listening to lots of New Thinking Allowed.

Funny enough a previous episode got me thinking of the answer to the question you posed at the end of this video and I decided if I were to be asked how I would label myself based on my orientation to our reality in its current zeitgeist I would say... I am an agnostic post-modern anthroposophical christian gonstic traditionalist.

[stephanietretton]

to me, everything we know is of the past... its not handed to us on a plate, but handed down to us... through insight... which makes us the observer, and when we observe deeply enough we see that we are indeed the very thing we are observing...
this must be understood!!!
Thx... knowledge is knowing the truth bits of our history, the solid bits, and using those as our stepping stones... whilst at the same time moving away... the quick sand...

[georgitchkhaidze]

Beautiful video! All shamans say that the modern man has lost contact with the higher world. Scientific materialism has finally exhausted itself. Right now there is a scientific revolution and a paradigm shift. The world is in transformation. This process is beautifully shown in the film "Avatar" in artistic language!

[chrisscarpantonio]

Hello and thank you for what you do again. Appreciate it Jeff !

[karlenestange]

I almost passed this up because of the title, and I am glad I listened. Loved the reference to the king mucking about in his feces. Yes, we are pulling off the scab and letting the laudable pus flow. Our shadows haunt us at every turn. Animals, and at least some autistic humans, according to Temple Grandin, think in pictures...as do I, and I am not on the spectrum. Perhaps that means I am more of a nature spirit challenged by the linear thinkers to understand how in the name of all that is beautiful do we tolerate its destruction for money and power. Kings in feces, indeed.

[commonone]

I could not really tell something about any stand of mine nowadays. I remember I used to walk about in that pleasant haze called modernism. Those optimistic illusions seem to be gone by now, to be replaced by the darkness of postmodernism. In defense of the latter one could argue that the collective euphoria of the former naturally evaporates and leaves us with this current terrible hangover.

[clayandputtyvideos]

Someone asked me when I was 13 what I wanted to study after high school I said para psychology and my mother was horrified and embarrassed and tried to "correct" me. I didn't see a problem with that terminology because I had been reading books in the field of para psychology since I was 11. Then later I went to university and studied psychology in Berlin, Landau and Los Angeles but the field I wanted to get into which was the brain and phenomena of the mind required testing on animals. Professor Dr. Monika Pritzel told us how horrific the testing on rhesus monkeys was and how that made her feel she almost could not finish the clinical lab program that was required for her to finish her dissertation. I thought that's it I'm out. I also could Not give presentations out of fear of the students. Para psychology interests me the Absolute Most of all study fields and always will. I could talk about that forever with people.

[DevastationMtrsports]

I came to this Channel The Brew Mr Jason jorjani via John David Ebert who speaks of hypermodernism a lot of his stuff I guess is based on early his early work of Joseph Campbell who I also follow followed early in my investigative self-education Journey I also followed the work of Carroll Quigley Professor who wrote the history and evolution of civilizations so between his work and Quigley I kind of followed along that line so this talk was very interesting thank you doctor mishlove for this wonderful and highly educational Channel

[shamanverse]

I think "metamodernism" resolves the perceived differences between modern and postmodernism by avoiding the nihilism that is charged against postmodernism through a perspectivism that allows the freedom to move among epochs for specific truth procedures. I think Ferrer in one of your interviews references the metamodern maneuver as a way to accomodate diversity in spirtual systems without collapsing into orthodoxies or a mindless relativism.

[terrygilligan]

Another great and very interesting video, thank you and your team so much. I'm still learning and trying to find balance in all I do and say. No one is completely right as no one is completely wrong is what I try to live by. Love to all.

[larahamilton]

Delightful and profound! Thanks for sharing your thoughts. In my inner symbology “modernism” is an explosion of thought and ideas with the economic freedom (i.e., prosperity) to pursue them. As austerity and poverty take over, the dark ages descend, ignorance reigns, and the people are enslaved into menial tasks once again. The post-modern world began this dark journey, as it merely imitated what was born with originality and spontaneity. I don’t want this to be true. But when I hear “post-modernism” I shutter. I don’t want to drink from the cup of where I fear we’re headed...

[JulieTasker]

This also reflects moving away from the more natural healthcare that now we perhaps call Complementary or even Alternative therapies

[janetjacks]

I normally really appreciate Jeffrey's content but struggled with this one. I think it was the sentence the he couldn't choose much between them that started me off.
I am thinking about the large contribution to this subject by Stephen Hicks and of course Jordan Peterson, bringing to the attention of the general public the issues with post modernism and its current detrimental effect on western culture.
Many of us feel we are at war and under the threat of losing our civilisation, the enlightenment foundational principles being diminished and the loss of measurable certainties and the lessening of rationality.
On the hand something deep is happening and the only commentator I have come across who has a handle on this is Richard Tarnas, with his incredible book - Passion of the Western Mind. Perhaps because he is a Jungian and has some over view using none ordinary states of consciousness.

[ImperatorSomnium]

Very interesting topic, I was quite amused and baffled by the synchronicity in-between our presentation of reality, music and the mind ... Cheers!

[gwang]

I don't mean to be cynical, but as I see it the future we face is not going to be about any further fancy intellectual developments such as what interactions there might be between modernism and postmodernism, but about facing the brute reality of resource depletion and environmental degradation -- both being aspects of hard physical reality which we brought about and which can't be deconstructed away. Already the signs of imminent collapse are ubiquitous.
During the 16th and 17th centuries Western civilization took a wrong turn and led us all into a way of life and thought which denies all value and reality to anything higher than the augmentation of one's material assets; now this is leading to the unfolding of what James Howard Kunstler termed the 'Long Emergency'. We're collectively about to enter a world of extreme physical hardship in which we'll be more concerned with our next meal than with Foucault and Derrida.
Perhaps a few decades or centuries after the collapse of the sorry state of affairs that is the modern world, human communities will start forming again with enough security and stability to allow their members to indulge their gray matter again, though in what ways I don't think we really can predict. Perhaps some will revert to Wicca-like forms of pagan worship, some will turn to extremely hardened forms of religious dogma, and so on... Who knows?

[n-Fold]

Much gratitude for your sharing...

I wanted to share some thoughts and a video. It is not perfect but contains something unique.

I was just thinking about how many strong intuitive artists I have met over the years whose practice developed out of some kind of trauma or disjuncture. Their work, (and my former work), was based in response to trauma of one kind or another. In such a practice one is stuck and repeating an old wound, or one is in a conversation with a wound. But instead to possess the wound yourself... (as Amanda describes below), you are walking forward down an unknown path, in freedom. And so that empathic/creative being is now free to use the incredible skills they created (and previously used to make trauma creative albeit recursive), and now they can be used to navigate into completely new territory—Disengaged from the trauma. No longer just conversing with it.

I feel we have to engineer or build “methods to create” that can exist outside of defined or named structures, even cultural structures. And yes, naming is what separates the sciences from the arts, in practice. If naming comes into play it is often only illustration.

Amanda uses the word “urge” as her “true north”. I think this is as good as any for teaching ourself to listen to what is unspoken and what is uniquely true to our individual being. And it is a way to integrate consciousness, heart and body. Body in her experience IS the technology of highest value. At least for now.

I think there is truth to this. And that in some ways to see it in this way is to know intuitively how to read the imprint of our DNA.

For this reason, I think it important not to pollute or alter our DNA as it may have value we may not fully be able to interpret or read at this time.

I think the wisest interpretations or observations may come from the least dedicated to an artificial or abstract language.

But we are not set up to accept or explore such paths. It is difficult to monetize. But it has vast value.

Confidence in language does not always equate to creative contribution or value.

[jhnndrs]

I try to keep my focus away from our societys negative and strange influences. I subscribe to the buddhist philosophy but with my own personal twist on it. I often ponder about humanites future and I have a feeling that we are falling into lower consciousness, whist we dwell in our technology. Every aspect of our human experience is very much like a muscle - The more you use your muscles the stronger you get, and in the same way you get more creative and intelligent by using your mind and exercising it regularly.

[jaimeroberts]

Modernism is Rational Idealism.
Postmodernism is Irrational Idealism.
The cure for Idealism is a return to Realism.
As we head into a Post-Postmodern world we will see an emergence of a more humanistic form of realism.

[cattoes]

I don't know enough about modern / postmodernism to claim I resonate with either one. What is the era called when technology advancements are able to reveals that the "super natural" is innately natural, when we realize that self-preservation depends on preservation of other in all our diversity, When "acts" of kindness to each other and the natural world are no longer us "acting", but instead states of being?

[waxmysophic]

In response to your question, I view myself as being similar to a worker ant. I'm one of many who seek to contribute in construction of something conceptually superior via group effort. The world of scientific advancements is filled with instances where a given breakthrough was pursued by multiple teams independently, frequently at multiple locations around the world. When the breakthrough occurs, it seems simply that the time had come; that, the cognitive landscape was ready for the given evolution, or the building of knowledge was now capable of accommodating that next brick. It's only ego, which pursues personal credit, and comparative advantage against the other researchers. At the same time, I like to flatter myself that I act as a responsible adult, dealing with impulsive children - and, I refuse to give them anything which would lead to them harming themselves. That's the basis for discerning between "can do" & "should do". At this point in history, we need to relax our emphasis on material technologies, and refocus our collective efforts into tasks which lead to social & spiritual evolution; an evolution of the spirit within societies, for the healing & betterment of all mankind. I believe that's a necessity, for avoiding extinction.