Stop Getting Ripped Off! Music Streamers all sound the same... and other questions answered

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Recommended Streamer

Recommended Speaker List

Around $100 (These prices will fluctuate between $75 - $150)

Around $200

Around $400

Around $500

Around $600

Recommended Amp List

Under $100

Around $130

Around $250

Around $400

Recommended DACs

Subs

[jamesskiles]

Law of Diminishing will apply to anything. I'm close to retirement so have to slow or cease in buying new stuff. Lucky I was able to purchase mid grade equipment and don't have excellent hearing anyway so I'm happy.

[ShaneAyerst]

As a computer engineer with 30 years working experience with digital systems I am genuinely intersted to understand how two digital streamers of the *same data stream* can possibly sound different. Unless I am missing something fundamental here, the ONLY sound difference can be when the digital stream is converted to analogue... i.e. in the DAC. I see comments here about hearing the difference in streamers so I am interested to hear how people think that works...

[bw]

Gotta love Randy. His output is almost non-stop and he tells it like it is. Presents in a style that all can comprehend and retains a sense of humour. Keep it coming, buddy.

[mgrsdgfsdafsdgrsdgfsdg]

Ive been basically tweaking the same components for over two years and have achieved an amazing sound with the help of this and other channels. Ill share some of them now. Thanks Randy. This is one of a few systems that is mainly my "digital" setup.

1. Experiment with speaker placement: away from the walls, roughly 6' apart, towed in
2. Do your best to have no signal or power cables touching (bonus if you raise your speaker cables off the ground.)
3. Isolate everything if you can, even your amp (sub on washing machine pucks, cd player on pucks, amp on pucks etc.).
4. Get rid of your power conditioner and stick to the wall (amp/sub/dac) unless absolutely necessary.
5. If using a vintage amp, pick a sub with both high and low inputs so your speakers connect to your sub so that way your speakers handle only the highs/mids.
6. Place something heavy on top of your CD player. Trust me, this helps (this along with the washing machine pucks helps keep it as stable as possible.)
7. You dont need to go wild with cables. Stick to pro audio cables, as they offer the best sound for the lowest price (I use Japanese Oyaide cables, which are the standard for most DJ's in the scene).

8. Geshelli Labs JNOG2 (J2) - nuff said.
9. I use a laptop to stream (i7/12gbs ram). This is my preferred method of streaming, but it takes a massive amount of work to get it to sound its best. I will offer some of the many tweaks it takes to get it to sound its best:
a) Strip the laptop to its most bare bones, have nothing installed except what you use for music.
b) Install fidelizer (this will shut down most background processing, and keep only music programs running).
c) Install Equalizer APO (this will allow you to have a "preamp" which will improve the sound of your dac, by allowing you to set a -4db to your sound. It will also help with the issues Windows does to your sound). You need to shut off exclusive mode, but trust me it will sound good.
d) Numerous tweaks to your power settings located in your power management settings (USB settings to never shut off, processer to maximum settings, etc.) There are tons more, but youll need to experiment.

When all are implemented, your sound will improve - guaranteed.

[WillieBloom]

I would like to assist the guy who asked the first question of the day about bass and subwoofers. I am a head-fi guy, not a hi-fi guy, but I do have an 11.2 Dolby Atmos setup in my living room. All 11 speakers are M&K Loudspeakers which are mounted either on-wall or in-ceiling. I have two SVS subs - a large cylindrical sub and a medium-sized box sub. Just look 'em up online. The two subs are constructed very differently which is exactly the point. Controlling them with the app (which is great!) I can play a scene in a movie with one on and one of to hear the differences between the subs. The differences are how they complement one another. Together they provide deep, rich, full, window-shaking bass. So I say go for two subs and mix it up. Don't get two of the same.

[SteveWille]

From a purely technical standpoint, bit rates and depths being equal, the DAC and the type of streamer/DAC connection will determine if the streamer can influence the sound in the time domain (smearing). With Optical/Coaxial SPIDF connections, data is clocked at the streamer end and blindly transferred to the DAC; the streamer’s quality influences the sound. With a USB Audio Device Class 2 connection (possible since 2006) the DAC can control the data transfer pacing and can clock the data itself making it possible for a good DAC to eliminate smearing.

USB, though, introduces another issue that may or may not be addressed on the DAC depending on its quality: analog noise transfer from the streamer to the DAC. A good DAC will galvanically or otherwise isolate the USB connection to prevent noisy streamers from polluting the analog circuitry in the DAC. Without this isolation, the quality of the sound can again be determined by the streamer; a good streamer might internally isolate its noise from the USB but this become irrelevant when the isolation is implemented on a good DAC.

[Simon_Hawkshaw]

Thank you for including us in your broadcast. Your hard work and great answers are always very helpful and appreciated. As an aside, listening and reading reviews can be helpful with the understanding that all reviews are subjective. Your advice to experience things for yourself is sound advice. 😂😂

[philipvermeulen]

In 2010 I bought my first SONOS and have continued to invest in these products to have some background music everywhere in the house. I have always had a stereo system to listen carefully to music in detail. I currently have a CAMBRIDGE AUDIO CXA-81 amplifier, CXC CD player and CXN-V2 network player and KEF R500 floor standing speakers. I also connected the PORT from SONOS to my amplifier. This PORT is connected in 3 ways: Analog to the amplifier, digital coaxial to the CXN-V2 and via Toslinck optical to the CXA-81. So you can compare immediately. I get the best sound through the CXN-V2. It is also beautiful via the DAC of the CXA-81. But the analog signal from the PORT, which uses its own DAC, is of much lower quality. If I now compare the streamer of the CXN-V2 with the streamer of the SONOS (digitally connected of course), I notice no difference. Thank you for your nice reviews. Greetings from Belgium.

[CompetentSalesUSA]

The room acoustics are more important than the equipment you purchase. ❤

[MichaelHoggart]

Listening here in France. Keep up the good work. Have made a few purchases from your advice. I'm on a new journey after a lot of years. Enjoying the music more. Now have a few old new items!!! from Cambridge Audio, NAD at the old end to SMSL Fosi new end...

[mikes]

Just added an external phono stage. Was using the internal phono stage on the amp I am using. Boom. More bass and deeper and wider soundstage. Love immediately getting that improvement. Will roll with this setup and upgrade the cart in a few months.

[dansteinmeyer]

I recently got a Bluesound Node X streamer that has an ESS Sabre DAC in it. I replaced a Wiim Pro with a Schiit Modi DAC attached to it. I generally like the sound of the ESS Sabre DAC (it's in the CA DacMagic 200 I have on my den system), and this Node X was an expensive unit, but I swear the Wiim Pro with the Schiit Modi sounded better to my ears. Also, I really don't care that much for the Bluesound app and much prefer the Wiim app. The Wiim with the Modi, or the Wiim with the SMSL SU-1 proves you don't have to spend a ton to get great sound.

[thepracticalaudiophile]

Going from my phone directly to the DAC via USB input or from the Wiim Pro via the Coax in to the DAC (Ifi Zen One Signature) the differences are minute. I was using the Amazon HD music app on both. I went back and forth several times and could not say which one is better.

[odwatchguy]

Great idea Randy, answering questions that make a difference in the enjoyment of this hobby. Thanks for all you do and you know the saying, find a job you love and you will never work a day in your life.

[KevinBachhofer]

I fairly recently upgraded to a Schiit Freya + and a Schiit Bifrost 2 DAC. When I made this upgrade I was using a Sonos Connect streamer. I was satisfied with how the new equipment sounded with my older streamer utilizing the coax output. After watching your review of the WiiM Pro and how well it sounded and functioned I started considering an upgrade. For $150 I didn’t see how I could go wrong. Worst case scenario if I didn’t like it I could just send it back. I installed the WiiM Pro and used the coax output and same cable I used with the Sonia Connect. The difference in sound from the WiiM vs Sonos was unreal. Even my wife when walking through the room stopped and made a comment on how it sounded. I believe streamers CAN make a big difference when using the same downstream equipment. The great news is you don’t have to spend a ton of money. Hell my Sonos was double the cost of the WiiM Pro. Love your videos!

[trevorparmer]

Always enjoy your perspective and presenting concepts based on your experience and system(s). As a counterpoint, from someone that has tried many streamers and DACs, of all price points in a fairly pricy and revealing system, I’ll just say all streamers definitely do not sound the same. As you mentioned, depending on where you are with your own system, a streamer upgrade may not be the next logical step. However, the isolation of the output stage (hopefully NOT USB) and the quality of the power supply and especially clocks, do influence the quality of the sound. I’m upgrading from a Zen Mk3 to a Grimm MU1 as the difference in the quality of the sound justifies the cost in my system, to me.

There seems to be this race to the bottom on YouTube that is bothersome to me. It’s trendy to say spending more doesn’t yield better results or law of dimensioning returns says you should never spend more then XX on a DAC…. Well if someone wants to spend $10k for a 10% improvement in sound, it’s ok for them to do so, AND there is likely an improvement in what they hear. Or even perceive to hear and it’s true you can’t measure that, but who cares? This hobby, or journey as everyone seems to call it, but it is a hobby, os personal and there doesn’t need to be right and wrong.

I’m not a budget audiophile according to most of the gear reviewed here, but I have a budget. I enjoy Randy and your approach. I just wanted to present a different perspective.

[Fazmag]

Since you have the Emotiva amps and their new XDA-3 dac, you can switch between the 2 optical inputs easily and compare 2 different streamers using the same dac, amps, and speakers.

[john]

Hi Randy. Yes all streamers might sound the same but there are other considerations besides how they sound such as how good their app is and different features they may or may not have. If I buy a more expensive streamer that doesn't necessarily mean I'm getting ripped off.

[paulkent]

Great channel, always fun and informative. I just bought some floorstanding speakers (2 pairs), so I can remove the subwoofer in both rooms. I spend too much time tweaking the settings based on the different recordings, rather than enjoying the music, i just cannot leave it alone. In theory the low bass prescence will be reduced, but I'm enjoying listening to the music and not worrying about adjusting the bass levels. Simple can be more enjoyable, although recognise others might not agree, they might enjoy constantly adjusting things

[yearsoldnot]

I haven’t fully tested but I think using wooden speaker stands or (floor standers) make your speakers sound warmer and less sibilant than metal stands. The moment I took my speakers off these solid wood chairs, and into these metallic tube stands, the speakers just sounded hollow even though the stands had some pretty thick isolation pads