Transubstantiation vs. Spiritual Presence: 3 Differences in Eucharistic Theology

Truth Unites is a mixture of apologetics and theology, with an irenic focus.

Gavin Ortlund (PhD, Fuller Theological Seminary) serves as senior pastor of First Baptist Church of Ojai.

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DISCORD SERVER ON PROTESTANTISM

00:00 - 1) It's bread and wine in substance
01:38 - 2) It's only for believers
02:58 - 3) It's "spiritual eating"
05:12 - Old Testament feasting on Christ

[judah]

“The reformed folks would say that the mouse doesn’t eat Christ in any sense.” That’s a funny quote out of context 😅

[chibinetsuke]

This is an excellent source for Protestant views. I have never had someone explain in depth the idea or spiritual presence.

[pdrsan]

I feel like communion is where evangelical worship is lacking compared to our Catholic and orthodox brethren. I really felt the presence of the divine during the mass and a feeling of tradition but at the same time can’t accept certain dogmas of Rome. I feel like every Christian tradition has something lacking and it can make it difficult for people to pick one.

[phoenixstudios]

I never understood why Catholics would not let this be a metaphor from Christ. Should we then consider Peter to be an actual literal rock (stone), we don't, we understand that metaphor from Christ just fine.

[chhoelsc]

Thank you so much for the great content that you continue to share and from the shepherding heart from where it seems to come. Continued blessings to you.

[TharMan]

Perfect, Dr. Ortlund. You’ve articulated what I believe about the Eucharist. Thank you for your ministry!

[bondockz]

Sheesh.. I was literally just researching this topic and then this drops. Thanks!

[he]

I feel that one area where the Reformed tradition falls short is in the practical aspects of celebrating communion. In reformed churches the pulpit is at the center of the liturgy and the preaching of the Word is emphasized, while the sacrament of communion is often seen as a sideshow, at least practically . For this reason I think that the Anglo-Lutheran tradition is more correct, by having the altar at the center of the liturgy, and by placing equal emphasis on both the sacrament of communion and the preaching of the Word.

[mmbtalk]

We should not just talk about presence of Christ in the communion but in the wider context of the Lord already being in me before I even go to break bread with others. I am already a temple with the Holy Ghost already dwelling in me, I am afraid I cannot relegate this presence within me. That is why the Lord told the Samaritan woman that a time had come when true worship can be experienced anywhere! Where two or three are gathered is yet another presence the Lord promised. Are you going to treat this presence with a lower degree? So for me, Eucharist's main purpose remains what the apostle Paul summarised it to be, "commemoration of His death till He comes". It is an elevated experience but we cannot dispense with the reality of Christ's setting His residence within me once I received Him.

[benhaggard]

2:15 thank you so much for stating this connection. The central feature of communion is our re-Union with the body and blood of Christ as the body and blood of Christ. I do believe he meets us locally at and through the elements, but as a miracle of the Holy Spirit.

[master_chief]

its fun how its says vs while there wasnt much debate and dialogue when it was a monologue XD. But seriously its very helpful

[andrewdrew]

The capability of receiving without faith in defence of transubstantiation is illustrated in Corinthians, where St Paul says” many of you are passing away before your time through partaking without discernment “
So if not the reality then the curse of God .

[JimCvit]

Dr Ortlund, I’d like to see you do a thorough review of the Eucharistic miracles of Buenos Aires, Legnica, Poland, and Tixtla, Mx. I mean review the medical and scientific reviews. Thoughts?

[hjc]

Can you or will you be doing a talk about the lords supper with jordan b cooper, interacting with the Lutheran view, like you did with baptism?

[captainfordo]

The Lutheran view of the Eucharist makes the most scriptural sense to me.

[markrome]

The question for someone who says they believe in the real presence, would you worship and adore the host? The early Fathers did. If you wouldn't then I would suggest that you believe in something other than the real presence.

[semper_reformanda]

I would like to know what Roman Catholics actually really believe: when exactly does the physical transformation of wine into blood take place? Is it the moment a priest ends his prayers? Is it the moment the wine enters the mouth? Or is it the moment it enters the stomach? Can someone who knows Roman Catholicism help me with this question?

[minagelina]

I heard him, but my older brain was not entirely understanding the difference. Ive only been taught the commenorstive view of the Eucharist, though we were always taught to be respectful and solemn when we took it. I mean what it represents is enough to humble one. But i will study it more.

[stljman]

“This is my body” does not mean “this is my body”

[calebjohnston_youtube]

I think the argument really comes down to this: If transubstantiation and some form of consecration exists, who has the authority to distribute and bless that? Can just anybody turn bread and wine into the body and blood of Christ or give it that spiritual presence? How does authority work into this? This is a question about Holy Orders and such. What is your view on that?