Christian Nationalism With Dr. R. Scott Clark

What role do Christians play in advancing the Kingdom? How Many Kingdoms Are There? And how are believers of the Lord Jesus Christ to conduct themselves in this present evil age? Pastor Chris Gordon and Dr. R. Scott Clark address these questions and continue the discussion on Christian Nationalism, Doug Wilson and Stephen Wolfe. Chris asks Scott to weigh in as he reads quotes from both men’s books. Dr. Clark, who has never minced words on these issues, tackles head-on the conflation and error he finds in Doug and Stephen’s writings. Chris and Scott look at scripture to discern how involved believers should be in today’s culture, often finding the truth of the Bible clashes with the call to action coming from the Christian Nationalist perspective. They look at history, our Founding Fathers, the political climate, biblical law and the laws of nature to present the clear distinction between the role of the magistrate and the true mission of the church! Don’t miss this important and sometimes complicated conversation that continues to be relevant in the Christian community today.

Chapters
00:00 - intro
01:00 - Christian Nationalism
02:10 - What’s With The RNC?
03:00 - Hulk Hogan’s Theatrics
05:00 - Franklin Graham & Kid Rock?
06:00 - JD Vance & Catholicism
08:00 - Wolfe’s Thesis
09:40 - Why Are We So Engaged In Culture?
12:00 - Christendom As The Status Quo
13:10 - The Prosperity Of The 80’s
14:00 - What Are We Really Complaining About?
15:40 - Secularism, The New Religion
16:30 - Quoting Doug Wilson
17:24 - Quoting Stephen Wolfe
18:32 - Clarke Responds, Kids With Guns?
20:00 - Christian Nationals Are Proposing A Revolution
22:00 - Supreme Court vs. Chevron
22:47 - Manipulation Of The Dept. Of Education
23:30 - P.O.P.L.L.
26:00 - Warmed Over Christian Nationalism
27:00 - Quoting Stephen Wolfe
27:32 - Paul Miller’s Explanation
27:42 - Quoting Doug Wilson
28:51 - Quit Reading Doug Wilson
30:54 - Where Is Common Grace?
32:15 - Three Points Of Common Grace
34:15 - Nature & The Sexual Revolution
37:00 - Nature IS a thing
39:15 - Belgic 13
41:10 - Magistrates Were Put There By God
42:33 - Second Helvetic Confession
44:30 - Doug Wilson & Postmillennialism
46:08 - Cyclical Nature Of Nations
48:30 - Take Up Your Cross
50:00 - Worked Up By Wolfe
51:47 - Rejoice In Suffering
53:30 - Can Christians Handle Power?
55:00 - Use & Abuse Of Scripture
57:00 - Quoting Wilson On Degrading Ministry
59:00 - Know Your History!
1:01:20 - Body Count Of Marxists/Communists
1:02:00 - All Things Ronald Reagan
1:04:40 - Is There A Civil Hierarchy?
1:05:30 - The Christian Role In Society
1:08:00 - The American Founders Were Right
1:10:30 - The Law Of The Conscience-Romans 13
1:12:30 - “Mere Christendom” R2K
1:15:17 - Wolfe Is Different Than Doug
1:17:00 - Special Revelation?
1:19:00 - What Is General Equity?
1:23:25 - Was The Apostle Paul Negligent?
1:25:00 - Will God Judge Our Sins?
1:27:00 - The Good News
1:29:30 - “Weird” Kinism In Christian Nationalism
1:32:00 - Mixed Race Is American
1:35:00 - What Is The Mission Of The Church?
1:37:00 - The Chief Message

More:

[JustinGorman-]

I chuckled at 21:20 when

Scott Clark:
"They [Doug Wilson and Co.] are not really conservatives. They are radical revolutionaries. What I am saying is: 'Lets try actually being Americans.'"

You mean like being be radical revolutionaries?

[CarpentersMinistry]

I'm 46 minutes in and haven't heard any exegetical reasoning for not wanting Christian nations plural. But a whole lot of emotional disdain for Wilson and postmillennialist.

[joshnelson]

1:26:11

Doug calls same sex marriage, same sex “mirage” on purpose. It’s his way of saying that same sex marriage isn’t truly marriage.

[williamhodge]

👍 Heard I'll keep reading and watching Doug Wilson. Thank God I'm young and keep propagating his ideas for a long time.

[johannastromberg]

Such a important topic!!

Agreed, people need to stop reading or listening to Dough Wilson.

1.) he’s a heretic who doesn’t understand the gospel. He changes the definition of faith to faithfulness.

2.) He clearly teaches a version of baptismal regeneration. He simply dresses up this old false teaching with clever use of covenant language. This is the same heresy Galatians clearly addresses which was the idea you had to be circumcised.

The gospel is clear. Faith alone, in Christ alone, by grace alone. There is a period behind that sentence. Any teaching requiring for justification or in aid of justification, one must be baptized or circumcised is heresy. The byproduct of these teachings clearly teaches or implies justification equals sanctification though maintaining a state of grace by the faithful use of sacraments or “covenant faithfulness.”

On this basis alone Mr Wilson has no credibility whatsoever. He is intentionally misleading by his use of language depending on who he speaks to. But be clear, he has never publicly refuted his teachings on the essential doctrine of justification.

It is no surprise he has zealous passion for promoting Christian Nationalism. There is far more passion promoting Christian Nationalism and cultural issues than the life saving gospel of Jesus Christ.

Ultimately Christian Nationalism is a distraction from the true purpose of the church which is to promote the gospel and tend to lost souls. Christ told Peter to, “Feed my sheep.” He didn’t say establish a Christian government.
We must always defend our church from wolves in sheep’s clothing and what is a distraction from the faithful preaching of the gospel.

[sonofnun]

This makes want to read Doug even more.

[CaleGregory]

Doug Wilson and Dr. Clark episode. Let’s make it happen.

[edwynn]

"Our ethic for the age is to turn the other cheek."
This dissipates rapidly in the face of evil, which seeks the lives of your children.

[nolanmoody]

At 1:02:40, Clark says there weren’t many theocrats/theonomists in the 16th/17th centuries besides a few nuts.

Then at 1:16:40, he says all 16th/17th century reformers were theocrats.

I’ve heard enough 😂

[angelawittman]

Excellent program and very much needed as you can see from some of the comments posted here. Thank you for tackling this controversial topic and shedding light on just how our nation was founded and how we can be active Christian citizens in it.

[joaoluz]

Seriously? When you guys anounced it I thought it would be like a half hour conversation hahaha 😂😂😂😂

[hannahvanderhorst]

At about the thirty minute mark both Scott and Chris speak about better resources out there to read but don't mention anything specific. Can you recommend some good resources to explore this more?

[victoryak]

Here is a word to Christians who are considering the claims of Christian Nationalists: “Let them alone: they be blind leaders of the blind. And if the blind lead the blind, both shall fall into the ditch.” Mathew 15;14

[jesuschurchworldwide]

The question is not "Does Jesus want a theocracy" The simple point is... Government is made up of humans and the message of Jesus is directed to all people.

So the question is how does Jesus want humans in government to live?

Romans 13 is clear that God desires that government resist public displays of evil; hence, it is important for government to have a proper understanding of good and evil.

[nest]

Enjoyed the discussion. However, the host has to do better. I can't stand when the host interrupts guests like this.

[SimonWartanian]

1:26:21 that IS a pun because it is no marriage in the sight of God.

[johnking]

You Guys should have Rev. Gavin Beers on to defend the Establishment Principle/Christian Nationalism from the Bible. He would be defending the 1647 Westminster Confessions position on the issue of Church and State.

[sierragrey]

Very helpful discussion. The times are fraught with cultural and political division as the radical Left attempts to force their views on the nation in a post-Christian era. This didn’t start in our day but has been going on for two centuries with the gradual falling away of the mainline Protestants who once dominated culture and politics. It’s painful for the minority of Christians who retain the belief in the inerrancy and sufficiency of scripture to see themselves without power and with increasing opposition that is now a direct threat to themselves, their churches, and their families. It’s not surprising that the CN movement has appeared as an effort to regain power through earthly means. But it is a poorly defined movement. As a result, , those of us who are not jumping on board are seen as the problem. CN advocates are frustrated, of course, and say that we are not giving them a fair hearing. This conversation is a great response.

[JohnHTerpstra]

Let's turn this discussion to something more helpful, like: "How shall the faithful live in a compromised world?" and "What compromises shall the faithful tolerate in a world where evil is prevalent?" Please note: Sin has abounded since the first Adam rebelled - its not new! The problem of how men shall live and walk is not new either. Do we have uniform agreement regarding the nature and responsibilities of a kingdom?

There are plenty of discussions for "Theonomy", "Reconstructionism", and "two kingdom theories" - all positions argue from a contrarian position that assumes that we each person understands how we as individual believers ought to live and walk among men. The common position assumption that there is a unified lexicon of understanding of what "society" is, of what "government" means, and how the faithful in Christ may walk of loyal citizens of the earthly realm while being prepared for an eternal kingdom. Too much debating is like ships in the night - the speakers merely scratch their own itch. Brothers, if we want to win each other for Christ and honestly seek to live at peace with each other perhaps we need to find a more convincing communication strategy.

[myndibrian]

This was just plain bad. Considering Chris had Doug on the show before, how the CN position (and Wilson) was presented shows that Chris doesn’t seem to care about charitably and accurately representing the best form of the position. Doug has expressed on social media that he will debate Scott Clark anytime on the Reformed Tradition regarding this topic. Chris, why not set up that discussion instead? These echo chamber sessions will never accomplish anything fruitful, which is why this episode had a dismal viewership compared to your episode with Wilson. Seriously, brother, let iron sharpen iron.