The best atheist arguments, explained by a Catholic bishop | Bishop Robert Barron

This interview is an episode from The Well, our new publication about ideas that inspire a life well-lived, created with the John Templeton Foundation.

The best arguments against the existence of God have been formulated by believers.

The author of the Book of Job, St. Thomas Aquinas, and Fyodor Dostoevsky — all believers — elaborated convincing reasons against the existence of an all-loving, all-good God, which centered on the problem of evil.

It’s easy to dismiss religion if you conceive of God as an old man in the sky. But many atheists simply do not know what serious believers mean by the word “God.”

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About Bishop Barron:

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Read more from The Well:
Are you a spectator to reality? Or are you its creator?
Can mathematics be spiritual? Ask Einstein
Why Einstein is a “peerless genius” and Hawking is an “ordinary genius”

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About The Well
Do we inhabit a multiverse? Do we have free will? What is love? Is evolution directional? There are no simple answers to life’s biggest questions, and that’s why they’re the questions occupying the world’s brightest minds.

So what do they think?

How is the power of science advancing understanding? How are philosophers and theologians tackling these fascinating questions?

Let’s dive into The Well.

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[ViolentaShadow]

As an atheist, I don't see "The Problem of Evil" argument particularly compelling. That's because it still allows for the existence of an evil god and I don't believe any god, good or evil, exists.

As an atheist, I believe the best argument against the existence of a god is the lack of good evidence that such a being exists. Show me good evidence and I'll no longer be an atheist.

[JJeroenNL]

"That job that I didn't get that was so devastating to me that caused me to... lose my house and become homeless, which caused me to drink my pain away, dying young, sad and poor." "That relationship that meant so much to me. That breakup that broke my heart into a thousand pieces and caused me depression which made me commit suicide."

And then I'm not even talking about enormously evil things like terrorism, genocide or a very big unnamed organisation that guarded paedophiles from justice...

Bad things don't always have an greater or equal good counterpart, I don't find that argument very compelling.

[DLFfitness]

“One of the saddest lessons of history is this: If we’ve been bamboozled long enough, we tend to reject any evidence of the bamboozle. We’re no longer interested in finding out the truth. The bamboozle has captured us. It’s simply too painful to acknowledge, even to ourselves, that we’ve been taken. Once you give a charlatan power over you, you almost never get it back.”
― Carl Sagan

[tonyburton]

A greater good from evil; cherry-picking a few examples won't cut it, Bishop. You apparently also know more about the "nature of God" more about than anyone else As the video originates from the John Templeton Foundation, must check out how many more videos stem from that source on this channel.

[joeturner]

Kind of a lot to unpack here, so just a few thoughts:
1. He claims the "Why Would God Allow Bad Things to Happen" argument is the best argument atheists have. I believe he is being dishonest here, but lets give him the benefit of the doubt, and assume he's being sincere. Nevertheless, I very much doubt that most atheists think this is the *best* argument for atheism. It is certainly not the only compelling argument. I would argue that "Lack of Evidence" is the best argument.
2. His answer to the "Bad Things Happen" question is pathetically inadequate. Though he acknowledges such profound evils in his preamble as child torture, when he tries to explain away the problem of evil, he can't bring himself to re-acknowledge such depravity. Instead, he focuses on much more benign "evils" like going through a break-up or losing a job. What's the silver lining in a child being raped, tortured, or murdered?
3. He acknowledges that Christians have done a poor job of convincing people that their conception of god is a compelling one. He is correct in saying this, but I'm not sure its clear he understands the root of the problem. As a non-Christian, I find the Christian idea of god completely baffling. How is anyone supposed to understand what is meant by a timeless, space-less mind that is all-knowing and all-powerful? No wonder people resort to "man in the sky" conceptions (never mind that the Biblical idea of god is a disembodied voice who sometimes materializes itself as a person, or other earthly body).
4. He makes the typical assumption of Christians that atheism is a specific non-belief in the Christian god, as though this were the default setting of Theism. Even if you were to somehow convince people that a god exists, you still have a long way to go to demonstrate specifically that the Christian god exists.

[elinope]

Next can we have Richard Dawkins explain to us the best Catholic arguments?

[WheelerRobin]

Thank you Bishop Barron, I'm still an atheist

[Starchild]

Oh how the Catholic Church needs to "take some responsibility."

[UnionJack]

First, he's only discussing one particular incarnation of a "god"...

A better argument is the lack of evidence to show one could or does exist...

Stop arguing the properties of a supernatural being until you can show manifests in our reality.

PS - All religions are human constructs.

[danknowsnothing]

"that job I didn't get, I have this great NEW job that allows me to be so much more fulfilled!" Oh what such a great benevolent god, oh I am so grateful for such righteous suffering!" What a load of horse shit made up by the evil, so scared of chaos.

[je_suis_onur]

I mean this guy talks and sounds intelligent. So when he remarks things like in the video, it is doubly insulting because it is apparent that he can’t be believing in things that he says. If god wants us all to be good, he has that power. Even if a few, there are good people in the world. If god is all powerful and also he’s responsible for all the creation, then he could’ve created all of us good without us knowing it. We wouldn’t know because we wouldn’t have an evil reference point to compare us to.

I think the biggest religious rebuttal to above type of thinking is the free will argument. If we don’t have the capacity to choose evil then we wouldn’t be totally free willed. But then could you remind me, why are we free willed? And if we are created free willed (like to be in the image of god you know), then why are we being punished by choosing “the wrong direction”? Also god can end the evil by presenting himself without any roomfor doubt, instead of relying on our faith so why does he have to choose the “mysterious ways”? So that some of us inevitably fail?

Not to mention he already knows that the things will turn out this way as he’s all knowing. It is like you’re scripting, producing and directing a movie and now you are pissed that the hero dies in the end. Dude you wrote the script, and you filmed it. The movie wouldn’t even exist if you didn’t want it? So you were just looking for a reason, any reason, to be pissed after all? And if so, then why is it our fault?

[santosvella]

I'm in my fifties now. If it has been so difficult for believers to merely explain their view of what god is and Bishop Robert says its difficult, it just makes me wonder what the point is really of believing if he thinks us atheists have got it wrong. It sounds like he's saying that god was never meant to be an actual manifest being that has any influence that maybe god was only ever an idea to describe something that we feel. So much effort for what? Why not just live life and really choose to be a good person? I've never needed that book to tell me right from wrong.

[Brassblitz]

If I hadn't been psychology tortured by religious faith as a child I never would have appreciated science, secular freedom and true human goodness as deeply as I do now that I'm an atheist.
Thanks God.

[akn]

Those "smaller" incidents of suffering could explain the existence of some evil used as a teaching tool. Unfortunately for god, the egregious suffering of animals, innocent people for that matter ALL people throughout time negate the idea of an infinitely loving god. I think a lot people have always had a questioning and disbelief of god but just kept it to themselves due to being shunned or ostracized by society and their own families. Today society is less judgmental of religion as a whole so people are less trapped in a religion they don't really believe in. I don't think the bishop is helping his cause with these interviews.

[sensereference]

This video is woefully incomplete. He totally ignores that sometimes, often times actually, evil leads to even worse evil. For instance, there is a trend in certain regions of the world where children are kidnapped by warlords, trained to torture and kill the innocent, and then killed while in the middle of perpetrating great evil themselves. If one wants to be intellectually consistent, then one can't just point to a few instances of suffering leading to moral growth while ignoring all the instances of suffering leading to moral and spiritual depravity.

[amyloidbta]

You lost me at “Catholicism is a deeply intelligent tradition” maybe young people have access to more information than ever before and are not brainwashed by religion anymore (though that doesn’t mean they aren’t brainwashed by all sorts of online propaganda)

[rauhan_sheikh]

I don't think you need an argument against God that's just unnecessary, you need one in favor of the existence of God and then we can see if it holds up or not.

[OverseerMoti]

A single Theramin Trees video spans over at least *four* times the length, and even then every single second of it is actually thought-provoking. Unfortunately our bishop's arguments here managed to be its inversion, in many senses of the word...

[handheadman]

These magical god things that early peoples invented to explain what they didn't understand are not only unsupported by any evidence, in most cases they conflict with observed reality. That's more than enough reason to disbelieve in them. "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence."

[TWENTYFO]

I love how this guy disses the idea of people believing that god is a ‘man in the sky’ as he sits there in a costume whilst believing in a god who requires oddly specific rules to be followed