The Problem with 3D Sonic Inspired Games

Inspiration comes in all shapes and sizes. But what you do with that inspiration can shape the very fabric of what you create.
In other words, do it right and make it good teehee :D

#sonicthehedgehog #sonicfangame #gamedevelopment

[Dereklander]

Going through a loop-de-loop and falling off because it barely curves to the left or right is nothing but pure pain.

[Amonimus]

I can suggest these Sonic-like devs to add "magnets" to the platforms, so the more character is moving away from the intended path, the more the camera would tilt to prevent accidental falling off the edge. You can see in 3D Sonic the camera pivots in the intended direction as you move.

[LukeStation]

6:51 Sonic Rush 3D dev here, can confirm we're doing it just for you and nobody else 🙏🙏

[Bunbaroness]

Sonic had a rough transition to 3d fangames

[Junior]

Fans talk about how open the Adventure games were, and devs take that as “I need these levels to be as wide and as open as an entire state.”

[chaomix]

This is a billion percent correct. Scripted camera angles are also a huge thing a lot of these games overlook. Having to take your thumb off the jump button to control the camera as the geometry curves/etc and your vision becomes obscured is a game design SIN.

[IcyXzavien]

I haven't really thought about how open the stages tend to be. I had my nephew try out the demo of Rollin' Rascal eariler this year, and I remember him struggling with the level design and being confused at to where to go at times. His navigational skills is something that he has claimed isn't all too great especially in games for years, so I didn't really take the openness as a potential problem for the game when I really should've.

Even though a lot of people within the sonic community wished the mainline 3D games didn't have a loy of automation (including me to some extent), there's reasons why. To give the player breathing space and for new players to get an occasional sense of speed, and to have Sonic's staple set-pieces and setting the players in the right direction. As fun as no restrictions has the potential to be, a bit of restrictions can allow for a smoother experience for newer players and players with some navigational problems.

[MariusUrucu]

2:15 I respectfully disagree. When you have the option to go as fast as you want to, it's on you to regulate your speed until you can navigate the level properly. It adds more depth to the game and a higher skill ceiling for those who really want to test their limits. That is, if the controls are good enough to facilitate it, which a lot of 3D Sonic games are kinda janky in that department, hence they use automation to hide the janky controls. Spark The Electric Jester 3 literally makes all the things presented in your video moot.

Like, for example if a racing game was too fast, would you advocate for automating taking turns or braking? Of course not, that would only make the gameplay more shallow. Same principle here, even if it's a platformer. Since you don't have a "instant top speed" boost button, it's up to you to gather that speed using the level and regulating said speed while navigating it.

As for levels being too open or too linear, it's up to the level design to have a good sense of direction. Also linearity does not equal bad, you can have a linear level but with tons of options on how you can approach it and get around its obstacles. Spark 3, again, does this.

6:19 Also you're implying every single first time player can do that, when only after learning the game mechanics, game design and routing can you do that but you advocate automation that scripts in the exact same pathway, in the exact same way, regardless of the player's skill, just so you can not break it? How is that better? To have fun? That is not fun to me... I'd rather have that than Sonic Unleashed's scripted moments. And I love Sonic Unleashed.

This video is sending me mixed signals...

[SuperSonic]

While I don't agree that automation is the way to go, I DO agree that, in games like Sonic GT, a skilled player can simply launch themselves over most of the level design. Perhaps a potential solution would be for these games to slowly decelerate you while airborne like in Sonic Adventure. This way, speedrunners would be DISCOURAGED from making huge leaps because it would be sub-optimal to do so. Instead, they would be encouraged to take smaller shortcuts that are more in-line with the level design.

I will also say that non-scripted loops are a good fit for these types of games so long as the game features some kind of rolling mechanic. That way, running up it and rolling down it can be used as a tool for gaining speed, but only if the player is skilled enough to do so.

~Bumper Engine Dev

[grimmhiro]

i think this video is right, but over looks the things "Rolling Rascal" and "Spark 3" does to guild the player. if you look around, it's really designed to be a hallway that expanded to be open world, but still a hallway. but i do think people should spend time easing them into the openness, because not everyone is experienced in in-game mapping and directions. overall, good message.

[verguco]

so some people suck at controling characters and thanks to them sonic games should be press boost to win?

[sanimbok]

I played the Rolling Rascal demo a week ago and I agree with you about the camera not doing a good job following the character throught loops and curves.

That being said I also played Spark The Electric Jester 3 which you did show in your video and that game has 0 automation throught loops and has no problems keeping up with the player so I disagree with that opinion that we need to take away players control for these segments because this game did it right.

[RaijinRift]

i get what you mean honestly, i will say though spark 3 has become my favorite platformer because at the start even with my high speed platforming knowledge growing up with sonic, you couldnt just fly through the stage especially not cleanly. Spark 3 genuinely rewarded the player for customization and stage knowledge and replay ability. The stage design, final stage, and difficulty increase over time is my favorite part about it. It's the momentum based fast reaction complex linear gameplay i want from sonic team but ofc with their own finish on it that makes it so memorable. I can say so many more good things about spark 3, it genuinely was incredible playing it and anyone enjoying momentum sonic gameplay should for sure play it

[_devotio_]

I played spark 3 and i haven't played a sonic game in over a decade and had basically zero issues. My biggest complaint was that sometimes you will go between two boosters and fly off the map.

[Calham]

Perfect timing! Just finished work, and me and my partner really enjoyed this video. It's especially interesting seeing what Sonic games are like for newcomers, as it helps you appreciate the design and direction they went for, and how it works from a first-impressions view.

[Justpega]

Sonic gt is the perfect example of having a massive level and not knowing where to go unless you know what you’re doing.

[OverUnderTheMoon]

others have commented this but Spark 3 kinda does everything right while still having little to no automation and large, "open" levels that still have a very clear direction. plus, skipping huge chunks of levels is only earned when you really start learning the game and you're expected to do that by the time you try to diamond rank the spark 2 stages

[Schlagageul]

I respect this video mainly for the bravery of it. These types of games tend to attract some of the worst parts of the Sonic fanbase whose behavior often goes unchallenged.

[kobinpaizlimona]

The solution isn't really automation, but more aware level design, you gotta make simple, straight foward, easy to handle but slower "Punishment" routes for new players when they fail jumps, so they actually get to learn how to control the character, the more open ended, intended, difficult routes are for experipeced/returning players, you gotta give struggling players that "harness" to have them "fail", but still give them room to learn.

[miadatenshi]

They don't even try to be like a Sonic game, no Sonic game feels like the "inspired" fangames. Spark is pretty much it's own thing