Debunking Excuses for the Old Testament God

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#atheist #atheism #religion #apologetics #counterapologetics #bible #oldtestament #newtestament #jesus

[billirwin]

Not so much an apologist, more like an excusegist.

[jenna]

A divine being that must depend on violence is not worth my time. When you're more moral than "god", you should re-evaluate your deity.

[troperhghar]

God wants humans to have free will but he hates when humans use free will to do anything outside of complete willing obedience
Yeah I had an abusive father like that

[Kevin_Williamson]

Well. That was certainly a large, convoluted mess of words to step around the actual issue. What I got out of that was: "That's the way it just had to happen. But then Jesus. So now we're all good".

[dougt]

It's baffling to me just how hard some people will hold onto their near middle-eastern iron age fairy tales and myths.

[BuddhaMonkey]

When he says not everything in the old testament is meant to be a moral example, I think he's close to getting it right. He just needs to acknowledge that the reason for that isn't some convoluted, secret plan of god's. It's just that most of the people who wrote the old testament didn't think of god in at all the way modern Christians do. Whoever wrote Genesis didn't wrestle with how to reconcile god's actions with his perfect morality, because they didn't assume he was perfectly moral. But he can't acknowledge that the bible reflects humans' evolving understanding of god, of course, because he can't acknowledge that either god or the bible are human creations.

[robbyroba]

Sickening. People need stop defending evil.

[waveman]

the apologist openly admitted to confirmation bias and making the bible fit your preconceived ideas.

[stevewebber]

I'm fine with saying the God of the old testament is ambiguous.
But then they have no right to call their God a standard for morality, or for that matter even claim that he is good.

Also, who exactly is claiming that the Canaanite conquest. is intended on providing a moral lesson?
I mean, I suppose insofar as God is supposed to be an example of morality, you could infer a moral lesson.

[RustyWalker]

Given that archaeology is increasingly showing these events never happened and what we se in the Bible are stories that were mistaken as history later, it's bizarre that apologists refuse to accept the archaeological data and instead jump through all these happens to pretend a fictional character wasn't evil.
You can even argue that the portrayal of God in these stories being evil does not mean no god actually existed. They're just iron age fan fiction, the same as we have real people appear in fictional stories today doesn't tell us anything about how the real person is in the actual world necessarily.

[iluvtacos]

"Communication skills of a tin of beans full of botulism" is my new favorite!

[KaiHenningsen]

This is what happens when you start with the desired conclusion.

[johnburn]

The genocides of the Old Testament carried out by Yahweh and ordered by Yahweh is a perfect example of why he's not perfectly good.

[Specialeffecks]

"How the whole story of Israel and 'the whole world' gets funneled down to one point" (except, when you remove "the Christian Lens" - what everyone else was doing at the time who didn't notice; the Mayans, Native Americans, Chinese, Aboriginals, etc.).

[dienekes]

And people wonder why I describe people like this as 5-year-olds making up childish excuses for disgusting fairy tales.

[bobmudge]

Life is so much simpler when you realize trying to rationalize a big book of myths is a task you can quit.

[klodius]

"Stockholm syndrome" and "Christian syndrome" are quite synonymous. Aren't they?

[andresvillarreal]

If one of the stories in the Bible is a narration of events without any moral message then the whole Bible is made of narrations with no moral message or the Bible is not the inerrant word of a god. If God is telling us that he said that the Canaanites should disappear but that there is no moral goal in that action, then when God tells us that there are ten, or 613 commands, we have to apply the same interpretation. Anything else that we do is placing our ideas of morality above God's. If we decide where the Bible is a historical narrative and where it is a list of moral commands, then our opinions supersede God's opinions.

Or maybe the Bible is a collection of books from many authors who had the most varied opinions on morality and historicity.

[jcpmac]

I’m always interested in TMM’s analysis of theists’ justification for their belief, but my God! it’s always such a struggle to listen to their nonsense for more than a minute or so before I want to mentally yell at them to grow the f up.
I suppose as a matter of courtesy we’re obliged to respect their beliefs but when I think about the sheer depth of barminess those beliefs descend to I’m astonished that ridicule isn’t the first and only response to it.

[martinnyberg]

I really don’t understand how grown-ass adults expect to be taken seriously when they just sit there making stuff up ad hoc about a “god” that they must *_know_* they have zero reason to think is an actual thing. 😳