How Many Mistakes Can You Spot on This Roof?

Roger has a chat with Ross and Vicky about the problems they have with recently installed roof windows.

Check out the Forticrete Low Pitch Roof Window System.

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#roofing #roofwindows #cowboys

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[oktfg]

If you think a professional is expensive wait until you employ an amateur.

[horatiodebonairepicklehoun]

Apart from the big problems with the roof lights, the gauge of the tiles is way out! It looks like they’ve started at the facia, worked their way up and hoped for the best at the ridge!!

[nickhaley]

After 40 odd years in the building trade i'm glad that in a few years i can walk away.
The ever increasing technicalities and specifications of modern building has just made it so much harder.
And yet, here we have a couple of rank amateurs who think it's simply a matter of doing "the easy bits" and getting "an expert" in to do the hard stuff.
Maybe when my arthritic knee gets to painful i'll do the easy bit, cutting it open, and then get an "expert" in to do the rest. He's assured me he's an experienced surgeon.

Seriously though, this just highlights how little most people understand about modern building. None of it's easy, you can f**k it up in so many ways.
They might stop that roof leaking but it will never be right.
Firstly it's to shallow, 17.5 min for those tiles. Something like a Sandtoft 20/20 will go down to 15 but then the devil is literally in the detail.
Anywhere that you have a penetration, like a roof light or soil pipe then it's so difficult to flash, as soon as a tile kicks up slightly you pretty much lose the fall and the water will run out sideways, your flashing have to be much wider. You better make sure your underfelt is good.
Velux flashings at these low pitches are pretty much useless, on site lead secret gutters are much better but expensive to do
And on another point, soakers DO NOT work on those large interlocking tiles, again the water will simply run off the side before it reaches the next tile, you might possibly get away with a WIDE cover flashing but a secret gutter is the approved solution, especially for wall abutments.
Sorry for being pedantic but we are having to deal with these low pitches so often because of big single storey extensions. The "architects" draw it and then somehow we have to build it.
Don't even start on the insulation/ventilation/VCL saga.

[MrClingclong]

I've used Velux roof windows since I began in building in 1984.
I've never had one fail. However, 15 degrees is pretty shallow....

[jonathantaylor]

I’m a roofer and this is why I’m coming out of it. There to many of these cowboys out there now taking the work of the genuine trades men. Seems the roofing trade is the worse for it.

[benmason]

Looks like the abutment flashing @ 5:33 might just be sealed to the blockwork, not stepped in (unrelated to the rooflights) - I'd be concerned that they don't have a cavity tray where the lower roof meets the wall of the two-storey part, so any penetrating moisture could drop down in the cavity. And that lead is looking stretched...

[jonathantaylor]

I’ve only just finished watching this and being a roofer myself I’m sorry to say you would be better off ripping it off and doing it properly. If your having problems now, trying to fix some of the problems is basically putting lipstick on a pig. Take it off do it properly and you won’t have to worry about problems in the future.

[Josh-gdew]

Here is a classic case of ‘we didn’t want to pay the money and opted for the cheapest’. I guarantee you they sourced the materials themselves and then found the cheapest roofer on check a trade. Funny how this sort of work only appears when “we done most the work ourselves”, it’s quite clear they didn’t want to spend the money and now complaining the works shite 🤷‍♂️😂

[danielfinley]

This is a massive problem for us that specialises in roofing, clown builders and internet clients, no way that was done by a time served roofer.

[rooftop]

The name of the strip roger is talking about to the abutments is called a termination bar, mainly used with pvc and Epdm roofs .

[lanista]

This video made me genuinely sad, but not for Ross&Vicky, rather for our trade. The reason why they are in this mess is not that they cannot afford a better builder or a high quality project. They drive a Tesla (to see at the begin of the video), they can afford such a two storey extension etc. etc. I suspect that the real reason is, and this is a huge problem nowadays, that they simply don't value the job of a (roof) builder. The fact that you have to pay for a good, high quality job hasn't dawned on them. People have stopped valuing blue collar jobs, they stopped appreciating the experience, skills developed over years, knowledge. They watch a couple of YouTube videos and think "oh that's so simple, I can do it too, if not, I won't pay much for this job". It is a mess - I am almost tempted to say they deserve this.

As for the job itself, honestly, tear it down, do it again, properly. It would save you a lot more in the long run.

[danstrike]

The roof tiles are not even spaced out properly. Rough job !!

[benmason]

I'm willing to bet there isn't an effective vapour barrier in that roof (especially with the lack of attention applied outside), especially with those recessed downlights, and I doubt they made a service void - and with moisture from a kitchen it's likely that the roof develops issues from the inside over time

[judegraham]

Hi Roger. The main take away for me, which is obvious but so easy to neglect, is to understand how structures are put together, how they work, so you understand the vulnerabilities, and the best way for me to learn about structure, and how things fit together is by observing 'detailed drawings'. A 'plan' and a 'section' is largely all you need to get an understanding of the structure. Then you learn more about loads and spans by checking out 'span tables' and then you could listen to an engineer talk about loads. Then I learn most about the quality of materials, and how they are used and work in the real world by people who have experience, such as you Roger. So thanks so much for your knowledge.

[craiglowe]

Those windows will always cause headache, take them out and replace them with a proper window kit, even if you put a valley in and do a nice job of the flashing, ultimately you would still want to lift the window to get the flashing undernesth, which I assume some sort of Tiger Seal has been used to glue it down, in which case the chances of lifting it are very slim without damage. I have removed it before with a heat gun and acetone but the problem would be actually getting the acetone onto the sealant to start to melt it.

Get an endoscope camera and check the inside of the ceiling void, the stains where the joists are running across the ceiling could very well be condensation. I don't know if you've used a vapour barrier, however, I can see there's alot of downlighters & speakers, so even if there was a vapour barrier there would be alot of weak points. It's best to check sooner rather than later, if you have condensation occuring in that ceiling/roof void it won't take long to rot the timbers. I'd say you'll probably be okay as tiles will give you some ventilation above, but do check before any damage is done to the timbers.

[SBIGDTSM]

I don’t know where to start Roger, I’m a general builder not a roofer but do most of my own roofs, I’ve seen some terrible work but that is right up there.
The gauge of the tiles is terrible, doesn’t even match the other side, I’m guessing they weren’t roofers or experienced guys, I can’t believe any half decent trade would leave it like that.
I’ve lost count the amount of jobs I’ve seen like this where customers have tried to save money by project managing the job themselves and trying to save money, what you get is each trade coming in and frankly not giving a f**k.
It’s why I prefer to be in charge, that way, the buck stops with me.
It’s pretty shitty of the window glass supplier not to supply a flashing kit too in my opinion.
Whole roof needs stripping off and redoing tbh, I wouldn’t trust any of it.

[benmason]

Looks like they've built the kerb too wide for your rooflights, they're not overhanging enough. And that lead is atrocious. Then they've used insulated plasterboard inside, so the overall thickness is so wide that it exceeds the black margin of the glass.
Those rooflights can be absolutely fine if installed correctly - mine is perfect, but my single ply membrane dresses up and over the kerb, they have a generous overhang, and the water all drains away on the flat roof. That particular manufacturer doesn't recommend them for pitched roofs, whereas some don't care... but they're not guaranteeing the roof are they

Sadly for this family there are just so many defects with this extension that can clearly be seen, that we can safely say there will be countless things wrong that can't be seen, some that could take longer than 8 months to manifest - woes won't end with those rooflights

[njuham]

I have Marley Moderns on my 1971 bungalow and only now, 51 years later, some need replacing. Lovely roof tile.

[richardharvey]

Hi Roger, it looks as if I am a bit late to the party on this one but having spent the best forty years of my life dealing with these issues .
Watching his video which is very good and clear as you say, I am reminded of just how difficult it is to see the cause of the problem from the outside when it is all covered over.
In the old reliable style of starting with careful, persistent inspection and observation after a while my brain starts to join some of the dots, raising other questions requiring further observations.
What I can see from outside is that the side cover flashings over the soakers do no come down far enough!, there should be at least seventy millimetres of cover, or down to no more that twenty millimetres above the soakers.
A bit later we see the ridiculous badly fitted flashing along the back gutters!, that lead has to be fitted over the up-stand and doubled back on itself to prevent capillary transmission.
Then an appropriate sealant between that lead and the glass.
The next point is that the back gutters should have a flat 'floor' constructed in timber and covered with a sarking to prevent abrasion and adhesion, it should not be on the top of any tiles!, terminating at a step down to the side gutter thus allowing for an up-stand at the overlap of the lead.
The next part shows the inside where the damp patches indicate any number of issues!, the primary one that I would like to know much more about is the exact sequence and application of the appropriate membranes and insulation, it is absolutely imperative that the vapour barrier is complete unbroken and effective and always between the inside and the insulation.
With all that in place and working to prevent any condensation the roofing membrane must be fitted very carefully so that any water coming through the tiling gets diverted away from any cuts or corners in the roof-lights,
Listening to your conversation with them I hear you explain much of the same points and by the look on your face I think that you also think that the whole thing has to be taken apart and done properly!.
At the same time you are clearly trying to help them to avoid spending too much money and the 'fixes' you offer might help them but if as I suspect that they have serious condensation issues that will never go away!.
Cheers, Richard.

[Gward]

A proper lead worker could create the correct traditional flashing to code that would solve the problem without a doubt but unfortunately the glass needs to be removed to flash it correctly as detailed otherwise is is just a matter of time before it fails again, unlikely to be a DIY enthusiast job though, you need to employ someone with the right skills and knowledge, it will cost what it costs but you will only need to pay once to have the issue rectified.