Do Catholics Believe in Predestination? w/ Fr. Gregory Pine

Fr. Pine talks about what the truth about predestination is.



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[gunsgalore]

"I'm feeling giggly."
Well you can always console yourself with the fact that no matter how giggly you are, you will never be as giggly as Father Mike.

[portalstoourpast]

As a Protestant who’s been “battling” (in love) Calvinist and Reformed theology for a few months now (there are many in my area who sadly ascribe to these), I am very grateful for this video. It helped me clarify my own thoughts on predestination by hearing your verbiage used.

One quote I will definitely hold onto is this:
_”God is giving grace sufficient [for] salvation, but he doesn’t…give grace efficient [for] salvation.”_ - Father Gregory Pine
10:02

All the love to my Calvinist and Reformed brothers in Christ, btw; however, I think their version of God is not a good or loving thing. And mishandling his character like this leads to a mishandling of his plan; a mishandling of our eternal purpose; a mishandling of our earthly mission; and a mishandling of our obstacles — like trials, tribulations, and powers — that seek to test us or hinder us.

[Simn-kvjb]

Haven't been this early since my birth.

[jimedward]

I said it before, I'll say it again: I love this guy!!

[frjohn]

Great explanation, Fr. Pine. Thank you !

[Rue]

Thanks very much ! I am a Presbyterian but have struggled with all of this ... this makes great sense !

[landon]

I have been praying and seeking this hard today. Praise you Lord!

[marklauber]

Great video. I like the daisy chain analogy. Can you do a sequel and talk about what it means to be elect? :)

[DaithiDeNogla]

Hey bro, want to do an interview with me one day? Haha God bless.

[feuerschwamm]

I would highly recommend to read Father Most book about this topic. Neither Thomist nor Molinist, total game changer.

"In brief, the solution will be as follows. There are three logical stages in the process of predestination:

1) The universal salvific will, which is sincere and extremely strong.

2) The reprobation of all whom God foresees will gravely and persistently resist grace: Reprobation after and because of foreseen demerits.

3) Predestination of all others, in whom God does not foresee grave and persistent resistance.7 This decree of predestination is a continuation and positive carrying out of the initial universal salvific will. The cause of this decree is not human merits-up to this stage, God has not looked at human merits, for, in the logical series at which God looks, merits are neither a cause nor a condition-the sole cause of this decree of predestination is the goodness and generosity of the Father who from the beginning wanted to save all and, at this point, actually decrees the salvation of all who do not resist gravely and persistently. No positive condition needs to be placed by man in order that God may predestine, because the strong universal salvific will continues in its course by its own force. A grave condition would have to be placed by man to interrupt the course of this will, but, precisely because this will continues in its course by its own force, nothing is required from man that it may continue, and at the proper point, decree predestination. For without predestination, that salvation which God willed from the beginning and still wills to confer could not be had: Predestination before consideration of merits."

[SydneyCarton]

Predestination only concerns God because He is the only one who can percieve it. I always act as I have the free will to accept Gods grace and try not to worry myself with that concept of predestination simply because it is not in my power.

[outoforbit-]

I don't think it's good to overthink this or even over theologise. I think the double predestination belief of calvanists can lead to trying to work out the mind of God, which is madness. Personally I think it's deeply mysterious and that my focus should always be on obeying God.

[ThaB]

Thank you so much for this wonderful movie again!
Greetings also to Fr. Augustinus (from the Netherlands) there in Fribourg :)

[UNITDW]

Looking forward to this one, an interesting topic and will be nice to hear the beliefs regarding it and compare it to Protestant and even Islamic perspectives of predestination.

[tabithamotta]

I have no idea what any of this means. The only thing I think I might understand is this - God dumps a heap of Grace onto me so that I choose to love Him and be sorry for my sins, but that Grace doesn't MAKE me love Him. If I choose to, I can still go to Hell. But God doesn't want me (or anybody) to go to Hell, hence all the Grace. Is that right? Did I understand that correctly? If not, please correct me using small words.

[richreader]

I have no standing with which to offer an opinion, but here goes. We say the questions about God creating something so heavy he could not lift it and God’s ability to create a square circle are nonsensical and therefore not real questions. To resolve the seeming paradox of God’s knowing what I am going to do where I am going to end up from inception versus the belief in free will I wonder if perhaps that is sort of a nonsensical question. What if God deigned it that in creating free will He did so in a way that He does not know what we will do? And instead perhaps God has create a system of love, grace, and mercy that enables us to use our free will to come into eternal communion with Him.

[tomgreene]

This young padre has a lot of descriptions and definitions of God's mysterious actions .

[Dsquareddyson]

Something I've been trying to wrap my head around: what about the necessary things that rely on the contigent things? Would that not insinuate that the things we define as "contingent" are actually also necessary?

[TheCh]

So, the Catholic notion is basically summed up like this: God created human nature "in such a way" that it may be said to be ultimately "autonomous." It's the "in such a way" that I think overly assumes without argument. Of course, it may SEEM that we ultimately make self-determining decisions. But we, as even Catholics admit, know this isn't entirely true. That is why Fr. Pine carefully says that God is not "surprised" when a creature makes a decision. Why? Because of what Fr. Pine supposed earlier, that God creates and sustains each thing's nature.

But what does this "sustaining" pertain to? In what sense may we definitely separate the exact point by which we (and our wills) are differentiated from God. Now, I'm not suggesting we "are" God. That is, we do share God's "substance." However, I ask, how does God, at the core, "interact" (so to speak) with our "souls?" How is one's soul (and therefore will) created and sustained (and - many would admit at the very least - directly guided by many factors, external and internal) yet so separated and autonomous in such a way as to be ultimately self-determining?

Examining the logic of causality/interconnectivity of being/ontologically, that there is a type of compatibilism rather than leaving all to just an intuition towards ultimate, self-determining "free will." Compatibilism, however, still affirms predestination in its most logically conclusive state. God has ultimate self-determinism over all things. Man, whose will is shaped and molded by God's hand, God nevertheless uses towards his own good purpose, creating and sustaining the will "in such a way" as to give the creature a genuine subjective experience of reality.

The difference between the two camps is this: Catholics think the "core" of human nature is self-determining/ultimately autonomous. Calvinists believe that even the "core" of our soul/nature/will is shaped and molded, like a river, in the hand of God. One is about human nature itself the other is about the way by which human nature is moved. I think the side of "how it's moved" gives a more logically consistent yet surprisingly more simple way of understanding the mystery of how God "causes" things to happen.

[marceloschmitt]

I am from Brazil and follow this channel. Can you give me synonymous for the word "pints"?