'Stall, Stall, Stall' B-777-200 JFK 15 Nov 2020

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VASAviation

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Aram Bedrosian

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[danielhawley]

THIS is what every pilot needs...Juan Brown popping up in the middle of your PFD to walk you though what's happening and how to correct it before things go south! He could license the software under the title "What Would Juan Do"?

[caribbeanaviator]

I have to give a shout out to ATC, as dramatic as that came over the frequency, the controller recognized that they had their hands full with over 600, 000 pounds of angry metal and gave them space for them to work, didn't overload them at all. NY Tracon baby!

[brianlopez]

This is THE guy I want flying every plane I travel on in the future.

[MarieInnes]

I said it on the VAS video and I’ll say it here too, I feel that each of you have the two greatest aviation channels on YT. Thank you both so very much.

[VASAviation]

Good as always, Juan!!
Just a remark, the speed indicated on the radar is GROUNDSPEED. I believe it's important to note that since we can see that number go well above 250 knots during the stall recovery and just before asking for the high speed climb (300KT groundspeed at 5000') but does not mean they "violated" the 250KIAS retriction below 10000' although they could have in an emergency situation. Groundspeed depends on wind and TAS and TAS depends on compressibility and density so it's OK to have a TAS/GS of 270-300 at 5000' and still comply with the restriction.

[jonesjones]

That PM did something almost unheard of in the real world, even the sim. He called out, "stall, stall, stall, stall" immediately, without the standard, "what the?, oh shi#, stall, stall, stall, stall."

[Ozgrade]

You never stop learning. I've been teaching Human Factors for 17 years and I've just learned a new way of explaining, or visualising the reason model.

[geofiggy]

JB, I sent my buddy the link for this Episode. He's a Cap on a major Canadian Airline. See his reply to me, besides letting me know it's a great Episode.
"The 787 is very similar to the 777. Doing an ultra long range flight to Delhi, we would see those exact speeds in the climb and you didn’t want to go through any turbulence when that slow and that heavy or you could end up in the hook."
Take care and fly safe. 🤟🏽🖖🏽

[dewiz]

From the sounds of the pilot flying to ATC, I’d say crew fatigue was the single largest factor. Happily, the event started at 4000 ft, not 400.

While the obvious conclusion to the uninitiated would be that this was caused by pilot error, it easily could be caused by improper cargo weight. I’m a lifelong ‘freight dog’ in the Air Force, and on very rare occasions I have seen where the cargo arrived at the airplane with improper documentation, and individual cargo weights were just flat-out wrong. It can be next to impossible to figure that out unless the loadmasters have tons of experience and a good BS detector. That hasn’t happened to me since, um...about ten hours ago. We left one pallet behind because on my flight today because it was all screwed up and they didn’t want to take the time to take it away and rebuild and reweigh it and bring it back. They just took it away and will sort it out and put it on another plane.

In this case, if the total cargo weight was 20k pounds heavier than advertised, all the speed calculations go right out the window. The crew would be fooled into retracting the flaps prematurely which could then lead to just this sort of incident.

When the C-5 galaxy is really heavy, min flap retract speed can be as high as 209 knots, and max flap speed is 215. So we have to accelerate to somewhere between 209-215 knots and hold it just so, as the flaps are retracted. When the flaps are retracted drag is reduced and at a given pitch and power setting, the plane will want to accelerate, possibly overspeeding the flaps while they are in transit. So we have to accelerate to above 209, raise the nose slightly to keep it from going much further (but not so much that it slows below 209), then as the flaps come up, we have to carefully continue to raise the nose further to keep it in the 209-215 window. It’s difficult and a bit stressful. It’s always a relief when they fully come up, because then we can lower then use and accelerate to 250 and climb out normally.

[SuperDave_BR]

i was waiting on this one too. especially after the tease on VASAviation's channel. thank you Juan.

[anthonycbrown]

A proud member of the 'Juan Browne School of Aviation'

How much different could our education system be if it was transformed with a combination of book and theory knowledge combined with access to actual subject matter experts (looking at you Juan) to explain concepts in plain-spoken language and field questions?

Our youth deserve better than what's on offer today and in the age of the Internet, multi-faceted should be the norm not the exception. Our young need to see the connection of book study to professionals who actual apply the knowledge daily. The absence of routine education on things that matter (budgeting, consumer rights, aviation, day-to-day health) has been taken over by corporations looking to sell things and get children on the 'debt train'.

[fedorsd]

That's the first time I've seen someone narrate inside a PFD. Awesome effect!

[Kevin_]

Many controllers know these long legs for heavies will need a high speed climb and sometimes offer it. I never flew the 777 but flew 747's 23 years. Most all eastbound legs to europe and beyond need a high speed climb. Glad these pilots recovered, I'm sure thwey have dirty fruit of the looms.

[BruiserFL]

Whether it was an impending or actual stall, KUDOS to the pilot-monitoring to recognize and announce "STALL, STALL, STALL, STALL".

[KellySmith]

I have to say the same thing everyone else has already said... "Juan is THE man" when it comes to anything aviation related

[Sailoralso]

It gave me a very great understanding. First, thank you.
Coming out of Brussels 35 years ago, ski trip, , Belgium Airlines, , all equipment snowed in on the east coast of the US, , They pulled out a converted freighter, the belly already loaded for Montreal, heavy machinery. I watched them load it. Then up top to get everyone on their way, they pulled every seat out of storage and bolted them to the aluminum deck. Every seat was a different colour, every seat had a defect, cigarette burn, recline mechanism was non functional, and they loaded all passengers for JFK, Montreal, and Atlanta on to the same flight.
Over loaded, load center too far aft, 12, 000 (?) foot runway, they used every inch and i felt the wheels touch the berm after airborne. The operation speed window must have been astronomical. . The approach into Mirabel 6 hours later was a masterful downwind, base leg, final that covered upstate New York, Vermont and 50 miles north of Montreal. We came in hot. Good pilot, , he was not going to slow down until on the deck.

[lenyancey]

I stumbled upon this as I enjoy aircraft YT videos. I'm not a pilot just a civilian who is really interested in aviation. At 75 I've flown alot domestically and internationally. I am totally amazed at the knowledge and skills required to fly modern aircraft. My hat is off to all you professionals who work so hard to keep us all safe in today's commercial environment. Everyone in the industry deserves a big "attack boy/girl" from bagagge handlers, loadmasters, controllers to pilots and flight attendants. Thank you everyone.

[fevengr]

At 12:24 the ADI is showing a good attitude AND a nice smile!

[That_Code_Blue]

Thank you for the education! A friend of mine flies the 777-2/-3 right seat for a major US airline. I will continue to follow your reviews of these events.