What evidence is there that animals are conscious beings? | Frans de Waal | Big Think

What evidence is there that animals are conscious beings?
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Consciousness has long been difficult to define, whether you're a biologist, neuroscientist, or philosopher. So Frans de Waal looks at what actions humans take that require conscious thought. Comparing them to actions in certain animals suggests consciousness is not a human trait alone.
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FRANS DE WAAL:

Frans de Waal is a Dutch/American biologist and primatologist. He teaches at Emory University and directs the Living Links Center for the Study of Ape and Human Evolution, in Atlanta, Georgia. He is known for his popular books, such as Chimpanzee Politics (1982), Bonobo: The Forgotten Ape (1997) and The Age of Empathy (2009). He has been elected to the National Academy of Sciences and the Royal Dutch Academy of Sciences.
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TRANSCRIPT:

Frans de Waal: Well, my cynical reaction to questions about consciousness is, "You tell me what it is, and I tell you if an elephant has it." And that usually shuts people up, because you will not be able to tell me what it is and how I should measure it. That is not a good reaction, because I actually believe that animals have some level of consciousness. So for example, the approach that I sometimes take is that there are certain things that we humans cannot do without consciousness. If we find these kind of actions also in other species, we must assume that they also involve consciousness. So for example, you cannot plan a party for tomorrow for your friends without consciously thinking about how much beer you need, what kind of music you're going to play, who's going to be invited. You have to consciously think about the event before you can plan it. Now we have very good evidence that animals can plan. We have lots of experiments now on it. And we have nature observations. For example, chimpanzees will collect tools on one location and then walk for three miles. And so then an hour later, they're going to use these tools to fish for termites or to open a beehive, meaning that they probably had been planning the action. And we test that out in the laboratory. And we have evidence for planning in birds, for planning in apes. So if they can plan, and we plan consciously, it's very hard to imagine that they can do these same things that we do unconsciously. I find that hard to imagine. We have other things, like thinking back in time, thinking back to events that happened a year ago. Can you do that? We have now ways of testing that it's called episodic memory in animals. And animals have that capacity. You cannot think back to a specific event in time, let's say your wedding or whatever it is, you cannot think back to a specific event without consciously thinking about that. And so there are certain things that animals do and that we have now evidence for that require in humans consciousness, and I think that's a good indicator that the animals must also have that kind of consciousness.
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FOLLOW BIG THINK:

[weshard]

Reminds me of the chimp at a zoo, reported a few years back, that would collect a pile of stones in the morning, then throw them at visitors later in the day.

[Jaibee]

Of course animals are conscious. The only reason people say they aren't is so they can eat them without feeling guilty. Human consciousness is just animal consciousness but with added creativity, malice and greed.

[tsopmocful]

The main problem here, which he points out at the beginning, is how we define 'consciousness'.

It certainly doesn't seem to be a precise scientific term, so it is up for grabs.

Because of that, I will make up my own definition:

'Consciousness is when lifeforms are aware of themselves as being distinct from their surrounding environment.'

When he mentioned things like forward thinking or episodic memory, I think it limits 'consciousness' too much and makes it way too specific.

Instead, I have tried to define it based upon looking at its opposite - namely being 'unconscious'.

Being unconscious is being unaware of something or being unaware of anything at all, such as being knocked out or anesthetized.

When we are rendered 'unconscious', the brain is still functioning, but we don't even dream, let alone respond voluntarily to stimuli.

Then of course, there is the 'subconscious' which doesn't 'think' as such, and which we seem to experience most vividly when we are asleep and dreaming.

But while we don't 'think' consciously in dreams (like seeing a dead person in a dream but forgetting that they'd died until we wake up), we are still usually aware of ourselves as an entity acting within a separate environment, with conscious elements thrown in during lucid dreaming or when there are flashes of 'thinking' or 'planning' during the dream.

So that makes it 'lesser' (sub) than full consciousness, but is still a type of consciousness.

What this means is that any lifeform that has awareness of itself in an environment beyond the autonomic responses of 'unconsciousness' can be considered to have some form of 'consciousness'.

And that doesn't neccessarily even imply nerve cells.

I may come back to this comment later and expand on that, but I have no time right now, this comment is long enough, and taking this any further will clearly require me to write a lot more.

But please feel free to give feedback on my initial definition in the meantime.

[aimancheikhali]

Some animals are more conscious than many humans

[cleavland]

Sometimes when I go out for a morning run I come back to find my wallet rifled through. 2 days later my cat receives a HUGE shipment of canned tuna from Amazon.

[joaum]

This question was an amazing choice for the video. Also I agree with the response.

[daithiocinnsealach]

I'm listening to his new book "Mama's Last Hug: Animal Emotions and What they Teach Us about Ourselves".

Highly recommended.

[cjinpa]

One of my cats died a couple months ago. He was the begged of the group. I made a video to show my mom and later looked to see what I had of him. As soon as they heard him meowing on the video, they all came galloping to where I was thinking he was there and getting them done treats. I couldn’t believe it and then I felt bad. I handed out treats in his honor. They are so smart. We really shouldn’t be eating them. Not cats, animals, if we don’t have to.

[steverino]

They have done things like put an object on a chimp's head without his knowledge, and when he sees himself in a mirror, he reaches up over his head and grabs the object off. This shows conciousness of oneself.

[Emiliapocalypse]

I have all the proof I need that animals have things all figured out. I’d argue that between my dogs, my cat, and myself, that I’m the domesticated one. They get to lay around all day sleeping, eating and licking their buttholes, while I go work for 8 hours to provide them with a warm dry space to do all that.
Joking aside, animals might not specifically recall past memories, or project onto the future, but they can certainly adjust their behavior based off of past trauma. They also seem to express love beyond just a survival bond. That’s enough to make me aim to treat them how I wish to be treated. ✌️ ❤️

[Ryan-tk]

Big Think: "Consciousness has long been difficult to define"
Me: "OK, Google, Define Consciousness"
Google: "The state of being awake and aware of one's surroundings."


You're Welcome.

[sinsiner]

When I look my dog in the eyes, he give me more than an right answer on this topic !!

[ossen]

The fact that we can record a video and put it up on YouTube, discussing *CONSCIOUSNESS, * lets me know that they are a part of universal wisdom. After all, we are animals too and descend from such.

[invox]

Anything that puts you in a "3rd person" state of mind. That's conciousness.

[PazLeBon]

I have about 50 animals. I think that if I see them 'think' i.e they look at something and consider it and then act, then its real conscious intelligence. I see it in soo many more animals than I thought, or was led to believe, from chickens to the emu sitting here on my lap (actually on my neck ha). That considering and acting isnt just an instinctive thing. In fact i still think its more about 'choice' . if we can 'choose' then we have consciousness. its down to that simplicity

[pinesparrow]

Let's end industrial animal farming till we figure this out

[KApkmn]

i always thought that consciousnes is when someone can ask themselves questions like, where i come from, who made me, why i exist etc, and animals act on instinct but they dont truly have a conciousnes and they are more like human babies. but i cant know for sure thats why i search for answers from experts only to take this for an answer 0:09

[stdio.]

I didn't think people were still debating this fact. My cat Buddy used to provably make analogies, and remembered lost toys for weeks.

[ShankarSivarajan]

What evidence is there that other people are conscious beings?

[galenflynn]

No introspection in the animal kingdom no paintings no music no language that can be deciphered no pondering their existence no maps no mixing of foods no condiments
I would say the animal kingdom reaches instinctual awareness but not human consciousness