AI vs. Classics teacher 👨‍💻 ChatGPT speaks Ancient Greek! Koine & Attic

AI is about to take over the world, and Latin with it! ...or is it? In this video, I give my review of OpenAI's ChatGPT as it "speaks" Ancient Greek with me. Is it up to the most basic of tasks? Is it a poet and it didn't know it? See what the wonders of artificial intelligence can do with ancient languages in the modern age.

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Intro and outro music: Overture of Die Zauberflöte (The Magic Flute) by Mozart

#chatgpt #greek #koine

[polyMATHY_Luke]

In response to the notion that Modern Greek is the same language as Ancient Greek, while Italian and Latin are not:

There probably aren't any linguists outside of Greece that hold the opinion that MG and AG are the same language, because linguists recognise there is no clear definition of language, which I covered here:


We can, however, as many Greeks have insisted over the years, compare AG and MG with Latin and Italian, or Old English and Modern English, or any number of other language pairs where one is descended from the other. Greeks (ones who aren’t especially familiar with all of these languages) tend to harp that Greek is unique, because Modern Greek is uncommonly similar to Ancient Greek, whereas Italian, they opine, is very different from Latin, etc.

But when the languages are compared, the strong version of this argument is easy defeated. For every conservative feature of MG from AG, it lacks one that Italian retains from Latin. Modern Greek has a genitive case (sort of — it's more of the Balkan Sprachbund dative/genitive merged case that is found in the entire region), while Italian lost the genitive case (it did have it in an earlier stage; my last name is one such example) hundreds of years ago; yet Modern Standard Greek has no infinitives (ἔχειν > να έχω), whereas Italian has retained the active present infinitive from Latin (amāre > amare).

Naturally, we’re talking about Modern Standard Greek which is fundamentally Dimotiki, but I think most Greeks most believe that Katharevousa is somehow valid in these comparisons. I disregard Katherevousa completely, as has the Hellenic Republic. But, let's allow them this: if they were to say that Modern Greek is exclusively Katharevousa —which indeed has been used in modern times — and assert that it is very similar to Ancient Greek, then they would be quite correct, because Katharevousa *is* Ancient Greek fundamentally, with a few modernisms and small alterations, including a lot of shift in the meaning of vocabulary. For non-Greek Classicist who can read Ancient Greek, reading Katharevousa presents few problems because it’s really similar, especially the *grammar.* Modern Standard Greek, however, is just as opaque to the non-Greek Ancient Greek teacher as Italian is to a non-Italian Latin teacher: some things are recognizable, but *because they are different languages*, they require different training to be understood.

And this brings us to ask how me might define languages as being truly distinct one from another: is it vocabulary, or grammar, or pronunciation?

So many Ancient Greek words, thanks especially to the influence of Katharevousa, are indeed present in Modern Standard Greek. While a comparably large number of terms have been imported from Latin into Italian (and other Romance languages), I can easily agree that there are yet more on the Greek side of this question. Thus literate Greeks are often familiar with a number of Ancient Greek terms they might see in the Koine Bible or other Ancient Greek texts.

The problem there, however, is that these are actually false friends. So many terms that Greeks *think* they understand in Ancient Greek texts have very different meanings (the following are thanks to Dr. Alexandros Droseltis) :

aG: Ἄγγελος = messenger
mG: άγγελος = Angel

aG: κυβερνητική = the art of steering a ship
mG: κυβερνητική = cybernetics

aG: τὰ ἄλογα = the animals (which are speechless)
mG: τὰ ἄλογα = the horses

aG: πεῖρα = trial, attempt
mG: πείρα = experience

aG: πληγή = stroke
mG: πληγή = wound

aG: βασίλειον = palace; capital, royal treasury, tiara
mG: βασίλειο = kingdom

aG: ἐμπάθεια = strong passion
mG: εμπάθεια = hatred

aG: μαλακία = softness, moral weakness
mG: μαλακία = masturbation; stupidity

aG: φιλοσοφία = love of knowledge, systematic/scientific treatment of a subject, science
mG: φιλοσοφία = philosophy

aG: δουλεύω = I am a slave
mG: δουλεύω = I work

aG: παιδεύω = I bring (a child) up; educate
mG: παιδεύω = I torment (someone)

aG: φιλῶ = I love; I kiss
mG: φιλώ: I kiss

aG: αἰσχρός: ugly
mG: αισχρός: shameful

aG: θῡμός = soul, spirit; breath; desire; mind, temper
mG: θυμός = anger

aG: καταρράκτης = abrupt rain; waterfall; trapdoor; movable bridge
mG: καταρράκτης = waterfall

And some others still:

γαμέῶ / γαμώ
ὀμιλῶ / ομιλώ
μῆλον / μήλο
ἀναιρῶ / αναιρώ
ἀνίστημι / ανασταίνω
πολύπους / πολύπους
βάρβαρος / βάρβαρος
συνουσία / συνουσία
πάθος / πάθος
αἱσθάνομαι / αισθάνομαι
αστεῖος / αστείος
παιδεύω / παιδεύω
ἀμαρτάνω / αμαρτάνω
φεύγω / φεύγω
τὸ ἄκρον / το άκρο
κύβος / κύβος
κόσμος / κόσμος
φθάνω / φθάνω

So even though there is a lot of Ancient Greek vocabulary in Modern Greek, the false friends are incredibly high in number, and thus even the vocabulary leg of the “same language” argument is weak.


Ultimately, however, a language is most centrally defined by its fundamental grammar, and not vocabulary or even phonology. English has a vocabulary 60% (or more) derived from Latin, but English is *not* a Romance language, since it’s not vocabulary, but grammar — which is fundamentally Germanic in English — that forms a language’s core identity.

For all the similarities, Modern Greek and Ancient Greek are comparably different from each other as Italian and Latin. In addition to questions of culture and national identity, I conclude one of the main reasons that the two languages are conflated still today is that they bear the same name. It's really fascinating the power of names when it comes to identity. They are as important, but must be questioned and examined thoroughly.

🦂 Support my work on Patreon:

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[Shijaru]

Even if it's not perfect, since it gets a good chunk of it right, it would help speed up work. Like, if you want to use ancient Greek for a game, have it produce it and then get a human to correct it. It's much faster than to do the whole work from scratch. CGPT has proven to be a supercharger for people in certain areas rather than a replacement.

[ΝεκτάριοςΧριστοφή]

The key for Greeks being able to understand Ancient Greek quite well is the writing. And I think is not comparable to Italian because of how conservative Greek is in everything other than the big phonological change from Ancient Greek to Koine Greek. Yeah grammar and syntax is quite harder but it's 2500 years. Also Katharevousa influenced Modern Greek but the relation of the literary language was always present through the years even for non-educated or slightly educated people. Just my opinion

[SoulcatcherLucario]

gotta say, i love the pompeiian pronunciation of ancient greek, it's so pleasing to the ear

[msicvbes]

Woah, I didn't know you were able to read modern greek so well. I wasn't expecting that you'd be so good. Well done.

[JasperSynth]

It's greek may not be perfect, but was is perfect is Luke's mustache.

[akiyrjana]

Appriciate this effort you are making. And like much of the AI stuff, there is nothing happening if one does not know the context thorouhgly beforehand.

[tassosapt]

The aspect that Modern Greek is the same language with the Ancient Greek it's not only nationalistic. Many linguists have this opinion. I think that these two types of greek are more close than Latin to Italian. In my opinion, Modern Greek is the same language with Koine Greek. The major change happened between ancient and koine. This is the reason that almost any educated Greek can understand for example the Bible written in Koine, without any translation. This is one of the reasons that Greek Orthodox Church don't use modern greek translation to the mass. Anyway, this is something debatable about being the same language or not. You are doing a great job, thank you!

[djc]

Το απαρέμφατο στη νέα ελληνική δεν χρησιμοποιείται μόνο του, παρά μόνο μαζί με το βοηθητικό ρήμα «έχω» για τον σχηματισμό των συντελεσμένων ρηματικών χρόνων: έχει λύσει, έχει πει κλπ. Ένα ρήμα μπορεί να έχει δύο απαρέμφατα, το ένα του ενεργητικού αορίστου (έχει δέσει) και το άλλο του παθητικού (έχει δεθεί).
Its not right to say that there isnt infinitive in modern greek as there is in passiv past and energetic past . Thank you

[ΘωμάςΙωαννίδης-βψ]

Χαίρετε κύριε Λουκά, παρακολουθώ εδώ και περίπου ένα έτος τα πολύ ενδιαφέροντα βίντεο που δημιουργείτε. Έχω όμως να παρατηρήσω ότι σε πολλές περιπτώσεις έχετε υποεκτιμήσει την σχέση που έχουν τα σύγχρονα ελληνικά και αυτά παλαιότερων εποχών (το γεγονός αυτό ήταν ιδιαίτερα έκδηλο στο βίντεο σχετικά με τα ονόματα των αρχαίων θεών). Υπάρχουν βεβαία διαφορές, όμως σε κύκλους μορφωμένων ομιλητών της γλώσσας, αρχαιότερες δομές της επιβιώνουν αναλλοίωτες ώστε να είναι δύσκολο να διαχωριστούν οι δύο μορφές της γλώσσας και έτσι να γίνεται λόγος περί δύο ξεχωριστών γλωσσών. Επί παραδείγματι (εδώ χρησιμοποιώ δοτική σε νεοελληνικό κείμενο) οι περισσότερες φράσεις που χρημοποιείτε στο chat-gpt ως αρχαίες θα μπορούσαν ναι ειπωθούν κάλλιστα και στα πλαίσια της νέας ελληνικής γλώσσας.

[RyanJohnsonD]

I am impressed how you can speak ancient languages so well.

[TheStickCollector]

Come back to this in 6 months of something and see if our input helped

[georgekiriak]

about in 2:30 . There is a huge misunderstanding about greek and ancient greek language . Yes the rules of modern greek make it different from ancient greek but in everyday language ancient words(even from Homeric greek) are still used regardless if its correct or false in modern greek . .
moreover the majority of greek words used today are composite words that come from ancient words. thats why greek can understand the meaning of a text writen in 400bce in a significant degree. In a way an italian could not possibly undertand latin of 400bce except from recognizing some words here and there.
In greek the more you read the more it makes you to use ancient greek form because it sounds better by far .

thats why people in Greece consider greek one and the same language and they are quite right . Its a very conservative language that does not take changes very well . its like they are used in parallel with out the grammar ofcourse

This is Plato for example
[327a] Κατέβην χθὲς εἰς Πειραιᾶ μετὰ Γλαύκωνος τοῦ Ἀρίστωνος προσευξόμενός τε τῇ θεῷ καὶ ἅμα τὴν ἑορτὴν βουλόμενος θεάσασθαι τίνα τρόπον ποιήσουσιν ἅτε νῦν πρῶτον ἄγοντες.
Modern :
Κατέβηκα χθες στον Πειραιά μαζί με τον Γλαύκωνα του Αρίστωνος, για να προσευχηθώ στη θεά και συγχρόνως γιατί θέλησα να δω τον τροπο που θα διεξαχθεί η εορτή, που για πρώτη φορά επρόκειτο να πανηγυρίσουν

We dont use the word "θεάσασθαι "In modern greek but we use dozen words that derive from that and you get the meaning.
θέα, θεαματικό, θέαμα, θεατής, θεα, θέατρο(theatre) etc

[nikospapageorgiou]

Luke, regarding the idea that the ancient and modern Greek are not the same language, I have to bring your attention to something that you may not have thought of. Many times one hears this statement, but I think it is because we Greeks have a different definition of what the word "language" means. It is broader than what the English, or other languages encapsulate. I too am of the mind that ancient and modern Greek are the same language: Different points in the line of the same language: The language is one, and indivisible. I may be wrong, but there is no term to describe that "line" that I just mentioned, while the "points" are described in English by the word "language". But this way we are missing a word for the "line". In Greek the word "language" encapsulates both meanings. I think maybe a reason for that is that we do have knowledge and access to the previous forms of our language. Since this is a rare privilege, most languages in the world have a more limited scope for the meaning of the word "language". I suspect some of the other very few nations with a continuous written heritage, like the Hebrew or the Persians (although they changed their alphabet) may have a similar view. As for the definition of language not in common parlance but in linguistics, those who happened to define this discipline happened to come from the aforementioned majority: The nations that didn't have the fortune to know the tongue of their lineage, therefore their definitions were handicapped and potted. But that is not our fault. Deny our language because theirs happen to be orphans? As for the comparison between Latin and Italian, it is my impression that the average Greek feels more connected to his ancient past than the average Italian, therefore making the idea that ancient and modern Greek are different languages not only semantically wrong (it restrains the meaning the word "language" has the Greek) but also offending (Evoking the thought: "How can someone say that when it is obvious?" since in our minds the word "language" is not as restricted as in English).

[wesleyoverton]

Luke I enjoyed the video as always and appreciate the attention you give to the greek language. One thing i notice is I feel like you downplay the closeness of ancient Greek to modern Greek. While I agree once you get to Attic Greek they are different languages, I taught myself koine Greek from reading the New Testament, and when I first started I was able to read a bunch of the New Testament just from me being a modern Greek speaker. Modern Greek preserves the same case system as ancient Greek (other than the dative which everyone who speaks modern Greek already knows from phrases like "δόξα τω θεώ). Though I agree with you that modern Greek pronunciation is definitely not accurate to how ancient Greek was pronounced. Nut from a literaty standpoint they are quite similar.

[JoseArzacSolis]

I asked ChatGPT 4 the prompt below. First I got the answer in English with Plato's words in Attic. Then I asked ChatGPT to translate the whole answer to Attic. I know nothing about Attic, so maybe someone else can tell us how accurate it is?

Can you write in Attic Greek what Plato said about virtue?
...
ChatGPT 4:
Sure, here's the Attic Greek version of my answer:

"Ναί, ἰδού ἀπόσπασμα ἀπὸ τὸν διάλογο τοῦ Πλάτωνος 'Μένων' στὴν πρωτότυπη ἀρχαία Ἑλληνική (ἥτις θὰ ἦταν στὴν διάλεκτο τῆς Ἀττικῆς, ἐπειδὴ αὐτὴν ἔγραψε ὁ Πλάτων). Τὸ ἀπόσπασμα εἶναι ὁ Σωκράτης ποὺ μιλᾷ περὶ τῆς ἀρετῆς:

'ἡ μὲν οὖν ἀρετὴ οὔτε φύσει οὔτε μαθήσει γίγνεται: ἀλλ᾽ οὐδὲ ἄνευ μαθήσεως καὶ ἀσκήσεως: ἀλλὰ θείᾳ μοίρᾳ τοῖς μὲν ἔστιν, τοῖς δ᾽ οὐκ ἔστιν.'

[futurepig]

I experimented with ChatGPT and it translated some text into different ancient languages. If I copy and paste that translation in the same window, it translates back to English. But when I pasted that same translation in a new chat window, it gave me an entirely different translation that had nothing to do with the previous chat.

[vtheocharidis]

The Spartans meant to say "μολγῶν λαῦε" but the AI has to be taught a lot to be able to figure out such paraphrases🤣

[zc-official]

1:47 Actually it’s a bit of a yes and no. You see, Modern Greek also had smooth and hard breathings, which were only reflected in writing, as well as the acute accent and the circumflex. In 1982, the “polytonic” orthography was abolished, and only the acute accent remains.

[jaredmorein]

Ive started learning ancient greek with the book Αλεξανδρος and chat gpt is my tutor 😂