-18DBFS For Plugins? What's the Right Level?

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In this video producer, mix and mastering engineer David Gnozzi talks about the right level to hit analog emulations plugins
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"The harder you hit them, the worse they sound..." So true for a lot of analogue-modeled plugins. A lot of harmonics and distortion can be produced and ruin your mix if you are not listening properly. As you said, -18 DBFS is a good starting point, but then you improvise depending on the song and your preferences.

theodoros
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Been wondering about this a lot recently. Great video and tips as always.

djp
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Appreciate you answering this and making a video on this topic 🙏🏽

MerajTypeBeat
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Great vid David. Helped me understand we don’t need to be locked to -18. Start there, then move it around until it’s getting desired effect. Wondering if you’d do a video on what plugin is missing from current plugin smorgasbord that you’d like in your toolbox? Thx for this channel! You and Bella rock🤘

ArloTarr
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I asked steven slate about this directly about the -18 thing and he didn't seem to think it was that important either.

themetalicarus
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Needed finality on this. Thanks David!

pco
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Thanks bro your videos are really clear and great ❤️🙏

AL-qjyh
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I asked Softube about this a while back...this was my question

"Hello..

Recently i've been hearing quite a bit about how important input levels are for analog gear and that they all have a 'sweet spot' which is (if i remember correctly) 0 on a VU meter or -18db...

Now this got me wondering about high quality emulations of vintage analog gear, such as the Drawmer S73 or the Passive EQ that you developed with Native Instruments (which i use on pretty much every track when i'm doing a stem mixdown) and wondering if the emulations are so closely modelled that they too have a 'sweet

I've read the manual of the S73 and all the other vintage emulations i own and there is no mention of it and so i thought the only way to know would be to reach out and ask the so i am asking, are your vintage gear emulations recreated so that they too have a sweet spot and if so is it -18db?

Thank you for taking the time to read my question and also thank you for your amazing work, your instruments and effect really have made a difference for me...

Kind Regards,


and this was their answer

Hi XXXX,

I got a reply from Niklas, on of the main brains here.

Yes, and no. We always start off by gain staging the units so that they match the levels when we connect them to a +4dBu interface -- just to make it easy for us to A/B-test. But when the A/B tests are done we often change the gain staging so that the plugin works better in a DAW. That can sometimes mean that we want to bring forth characteristics in the unit, the FET Compressor is for example known to sound good when driven hard, so we gain stage that a little bit harder than the Tube-Tech CL 1B, which works best for slightly lower levels.

However, we have a rule-of-thumb that 0 VU on a plugin should be somewhere between -9 and -15 dBFS, and we take extreme care to make sure that the VU behaves just like the real hardware. So if you know that your Tube Tech CL 1B hardware sounds a particular way when the needle hits 0 VU, the plugin will sound the same with the needle at 0 VU.

Regarding the S73 and Passive EQ in particular: The S73 is based on the 1973 plugin, which has been gain staged with 0 VU somewhere around -12 dBFS (can’t remember exactly). But the “Amount” knob effectively let you set the gain staging so that you get the right amount of gain reduction. I can’t remember how we did with the Passive EQ, but much of the distortion in that comes from the chokes used in the low frequency bell filters, and it will probably have a sweet spot at “normal” DAW levels, say -18 dB RMS and occasional peaks reaching all the way up to (and above) 0 dBFS.

Hope this helps. For some plugins we have written about the gain staging in the manuals.

TheFujac
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Appreciate your knowledge on this issue David. From my experience as well, it depends on the track. -18dbfs is a good starting point 🤘

DjRuthful
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Don't know how we got to the point where people obsess over the exact number of this and that. Yes Its important, but not as important as NOT knowing it and STILL being able to get the sound you hear in your head. If you have a basic understanding of your bread and butter audio tools then you should be able to get close to your desired sound. If not, it isn't cause youre not hitting the plugin at -18, it's most likely due to the lack of experimentation, trial and error, etc.
Sometimes you just have to throw caution to the wind and go with your instincts.

madmuso
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Extremely useful, perspective changing advice Davey boy. Thank you

adambutcher
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4th to comment. Good insight Dave. Thank you.

reddmusiclab
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Yeah I use -18 dbfs but I noticed some plugins want a little more so I gauge it as I go. Still new to the concept but I can see where I messed up in the past and why some of my mixes got too messy. Probably going into some of my plugins too hard.

marksaxon
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I normalise each of my channels to -18 rms at fader unity before mixing and this seems to work well as far as a 'neutral' position for analogue modeling plugins for me where I've still got room to push them more when desired. Feel free to call me an idiot and suggest a better way

djvoid
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I used to use my ears before I knew about gain staging... After I learned about the safe starting point of -18db everything sounds a million times better. I hardly ever want to push more than that. I would say trust your ears BUT use a VU meter to start at -18, and if you are a bit crazy, then start pushing here and there. (A little)

JuanJacinto
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Broooo I had to check if I had the vid on 2x fast … slllooowwww

Triggmixedit
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Hi David, we just need to feed the plugins at a lower level to avoid problems, but after the signal enter the plugin we can make things louder so our final master can get loud and clean without distortion ?

nashseen
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What's about Mastering with analog plug ?

BrunoMorisetti
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when you say -18 do you mean that’s what the vocals should be hitting before we add our plugins?

flamersss
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Out of curiosity, where do you push an analog console for saturation? is it on the faders/master or earlier in the chain using the trims? Thanks

RedSpark_