What Tesla Solar Won't Tell You Unless You Ask...

In September of 2021 Tesla Solar installed a 10.2 kilowatts of solar on my house in Florida, a year later I've never made over 7.6 kilowatts of projection. Did Tesla Solar scam me or am I overreacting?

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[WMichaeli]

"I just really wish the solar industry didn't feel so shady." I absolutely love everything about this line.

[mongo]

There is no way an average consumer would know any of these details. Glad you figured it out. But it sounds very confusing and frustrating

[bluedistortions]

Ex solar installer here.

Combining two strings with panels facing separate directions is a massive no no.

What that means is, whichever group of panels is the least efficient, the other panels will be limited to that amount. So if one side is limited in sun exposure and only producing 50%, the other side, which might be in direct sunlight, will still be limited to whatever the other side is producing. Its like making two athletes run a race by tying their inside legs together.

When you showed how it saved the installer a couple bucks in material and a few minutes install time, I had to laugh out of frustration, as that's exactly what they do. They dont care about the end result. Actually, they like to hamstring the system, as most people will call them to install more panels or a bigger inverter, rewarding their laziness which led to poor performance.

This is a far bigger issue than clipping, but will be fairly easy for any installer to fix for you.

Now, about that clipping. A 4% loss for a cheaper inverter, with the money invested into more panels, will lead to a more consistent output than fewer panels with a larger inverter. Its standard practice for a reason.. you dont aim for maximum output on good days, you aim for a system that gives you a useful output under the grestest variety of conditions. You didnt get ripped off there. It probably just wasnt explained very well.

[danielbornaz]

Did it all by myself, 11kW offgrid configuration with 32kWh battery capacity, total cost about $17k. Two years now, never had an issue.

[cmurd]

11 years ago we used Home Depot as our Solar installer. They of course subbed the job to company A who did all the sizing and design. They subbed the physical install to company B. We may have paid slightly more but our warranty was with Home Depot and I figured they would be around for a while. And did this pay off when 9 years later our roof had significant damage. The installer used lag bolts with silicon calk and no flashing so the roof eventually rotted away when the calk dried up. We had to have our entire roof replaced with 1/3 of the plywood including panel removal and reinstall. This was a nightmare of and issue and we had many an issue with Home Depots warranty department. Company A and B were long gone and Home Depot had gotten out of the Solar game. We had to manage the roof replacement contractor as well as another Solar company to remove and reinstall the panels. This included proving there was damage and it was caused by the original install. In the end Home Depot covered 100% of the cost and we were just short of needing a lawyer but if we had used company A or B directly we would have been SOL.

[robertj]

For clarification on how your roof was stringed here are some possible reasons:

1. The 6 panels facing north may not receive enough direct sunlight for the voltage to get high enough to let the string start producing
2. The installers reduced the number of strings to save wire and avoid using a larger conduit size. Hard to say from video but it looks like they brought the PV wire(open air) all the way to the inverter instead of transitioning to THHN which has less insulation(smaller diameter) and made to go through conduit.
3. It was just easier that way(unfortunately, historically the people actually installing your system are considered the least valuable of the process and usually just want to get the job done as quickly and with as little hassle as possible).
4. If there are no optimizers or maximizers(a box under each module to regulate power flow to the string inverter) then each panel in the string should be getting a fairly equal amount of sunlight which means panels should be facing the same direction and at the same angle. DC power runs in a loop that begins and ends at the inverter, which means the panel allowing the least amount of flow dictates the total... in other words the weakest link is the only one that matters.

I've done solar since 2007 and unlike other construction trades solar is ran by salespeople, that's slowly changing but not fast enough.

[drdehailey]

We used a local company ran by two electrical engineers. They came highly recommended. They did a great job, so we used them again for another array. Again, they did a great job. We had an optimizer go out, and they replaced it in less than a week. Great experience overall. I think that "they came highly recommended" is important.

[areitu]

"They are going to avoid actively talking to you" -- Tesla solar did this to me from the very beginning. Never communicated with the same person more than once. Needed a re-roof, so I asked for a list of requirements to give to the roofing company. After that was done, the Tesla site inspector, who had never seen a house with no attic, said I needed a new roof even though I used requirements they gave me. When I asked customer support for a more experienced site inspector, they cancelled the project on me. I guess they didn't want to sell me 17kw of panels and 3 powerwalls

[brian.hanifin]

We got panel quotes around 8 years ago from 3 companies. We wanted to go with Solar City (before the Tesla acquisition) but the sales rep called us idiots for not choosing to lease the panels. We told him from minute 1 we were only interested in purchasing the panels not leasing.

We went with the friendly local electrician company that has been in business for over 30 years. They were a fair price, gave us exactly what we wanted, and the owner even picked up the phone to answer any and all questions with a friendly patient attitude. They treated us with the respect of a family friend.

Then the company disappeared within 3 years after a family tragedy. Honestly I don’t hold a grudge, I feel for the guy. But yeah, even long lived local companies can disappear.

[tesladura]

Holly smokes! What a great review of what you experienced. I am SO glad that I chose to go with a local installer. I wound up with an 11.84kw system that has wiped out my electricity bill entirely while also charging my Tesla. In addition, my installer navigated CA's SGIP battery rebate program, did all the paperwork and got me a 24kWh battery backup, installed. I met the qualifications for the program, but this local installer, who has been in business doing solar since the late 1980's, was an absolute dream to work with. No clipping, micro-inverters for every panel that let me monitor each panel individually, etc. I signed the contract in early May, installation was scheduled for mid-July, but happened three weeks ahead of schedule. Received PTO within five days of power up. I love my Tesla Model 3 to bits, but I am not a fan of their solar or batteries.

[sliphere]

I did tons of research before buying solar. Went with enphase micro inverter system. I'm getting all the power the panels are rated for. Each panel has its own inverter which can squeeze out as much juice as possible with minimal loss. People don't realize that DC power is has a lot of power loss going 30 feet, converting right at the panel to AC gets more power to your circuit breakers.

[fyruiii]

I spent a year or two watching TINY HOME/VAN LIFE videos, which inspired my interest in solar. I spent $1, 000 on 5 lightly used 230 watt panels. A humble 2000watt pure sine inverter and a standard deep cycle battery from my local hardware store. I climbed my own roof and installed everything myself.
It's a humble little system saving us a few bucks every month. Had no corporate headaches during the process.

[kikmedown]

The point of the video is that he felt scammed. Though he may have made some research, like me and a lot of other people, there's only so much he could've known unless he had previous experience with another installation, had friend who is an avid solar system geek or had a crash course on the ins and outs of the industry. A lot of things of the process don't require previous PV experience, but with the money you invest, you sure as hell want use all that you know to better understand what you're getting into. His gut told him something was off, but buying from reputable company helped him make the decision to go with Tesla a little or a lot easier.

Solar installation is not mainstream. The more people talk and speak about their experience, the better it will be for the residential consumer. This will drive the companies to either make a better product or create better customer experience with addressing concerns that would have become important to consumers by this time.

Just like cars, if I were to buy a car that looks good based off of commercials, from seeing it out on the road, from the salespeople, or what the trend is, some car guy would get pissed at me if I complained about an expensive repair I had to make. The passionate car guy would tell you, "of course it's going to cost you that. Didn't you know? I mean, a lot of people know. You should've done the research and not complain about it now." Luckily, there are knowledgeable people that review tech, cars and even toys. The information is visible from the mainstream level through the news, articles on websites, Google and YouTube videos. Residential solar installations are not quite there yet.

It is hard to find trusted people to hear and learn from, but they're out there. This channel is here to help everyone who wants the help. Class act review of his experience. The residential solar installation process and shopping is getting really popular but the details are new info to the average consumer.

With all that are commenting about how the installation is standard and what not, make a video about. Teach the average consumer. Write about it. Get the word out so even schools start talking about it to the new generation. Nowadays, 30+ something year olds are learning new things from the young kids. You have an opportunity to a difference. The Hook Up is helping make information on new trends on the latest tech easily available and easing the average consumer into this space where there are people willing to help inform.

[penguinbriar]

We did 14.4 kw + 3 Powerwalls. Now 6 months in. The first couple months we didn't touch the grid for power and it looks like we will just use grid during the worst summer months ... the rest of the year we won't need to touch the grid.

[rickb]

We installed a SunPower system in 2014. The panels on our roof were made in the US and have performed better than spec. We’ve already recouped our investment.

[danielcurtis]

My experience was almost exactly the same as yours! Down to the year and dates of install! I could not understand why I paid for 10.6kw but only generate 7.7kw. I called and inquired but they gave me odd BS answers that I just accepted...now I know. THANK YOU!!!

[axion]

After a massive research effort one thing became clear about solar panel systems: you want micro-inverters on every single panel. Any loss in DC-to-AC conversion is more than offset by immunity to throttling of the overall system by clouds, trees, etc. In addition you can monitor the performance of every single panel in real time with the manufacturer's software (in my case, Enphase) and graph output/usage over any time period (day, weeks, months, year, lifetime and custom). I am in northeastern US and used Suncommon, regional (vs local or national) company. Buying solar requires serious work on the part of the home owner. Caveat Emptor. My dealer/installer experience was excellent: full disclosure and serious customer education.

[mati]

I have just had a local company install a 6kw system, without battery and the whole process was done in three weeks. I used Energysage and I went with Enphase iq8+ inverters and Qcell G10 400w panels. I was happy with the whole process, and with the system. The local company owner, answers almost instantly to all my questions, even after the install. Now my neighbor is installing solar with the same company(JDC Energy).

[irq]

I also chose Tesla for my solar install for the same reasons as you mentioned ( cheapest quote, long term warranty support assurance etc ), but I did have a different experience with them - mostly positive.

I ordered the same 10.2 KW system ( no power wall ) in Nov, 2020 for $15K after rebate and it came with 9.6 KW inverter. I am getting the promised 15600 KWH of yearly production ( I am in bay area, CA ) even though two tall trees cause significant shadow on my roof in the morning hours in winter. I have String inverter just like yours and I am sure I loose some generation in the winter months due to shadow, but that is compensated by excellent generation in summer months. For e.g., I get 1800 KWH / month in May to July, but it goes down to 800 KWH or less in Oct & Nov. Micro-inverters probably would have produced more in winter months due to shadow issue.
But the best part was my customer experience with them when I had a problem. My install was completed in April, 2021 ( took 6 months ) and Tesla was indeed slow in completing the project. Come November and my roof started leaking in the very first rain. Tesla sent a roofer for emergency repair after lot of followup. After that started the blame game that who is at fault for the leak and should pay for the permanent fix. They found the roof underlayment damaged near the edge of the panels and my roof being 30 year old, they tried to first make this the root cause. But since they inspected the roof prior to install and approved it, they finally accepted the responsibility to fix it. They didn't just patch it, but deinstalled all the panels and roof tiles, put a new underlayment on the entire roof having the panels and reinstalled everything. They also painted the entire false ceiling inside the home where water leak caused a stain.

I can't be but a happy customer at this outcome. Don't think any independent installer would have done this.

[JSabh]

The best thing to do is study and learn enough that you could install and service the system yourself. Solar is very expensive in general but not for the actual panels. The cost comes from the battery bank and inverters. It is always a good idea to have redundancy built in. For instance, I have a separate inverter to charge the house battery bank and a dedicated bank for the solar station itself. If one fails then I can divert until I replace the damaged part. I am off grid so it is a must.