When Did Battleships Become Obsolete?

In this episode we're talking about the age of battleships and some pivotal moments that marked their end.

To support this channel and Battleship New Jersey, go to:

[nottakennick]

I think the better question would be “when did it *become obvious* that the days of the battleship were numbered” and Prince of Wales is a pretty good answer to that.

[waynesmith]

This is a simple question that requires a multi-dimensional answer. If battleships under way being sunk by airpower are the sign of obsolescence, aren't all ships obsolete? I think it is a combination of the battleships guns being outranged by munitions from other sources (e.g. smart bombs starting with the Fritz X), today's precision munitions replacing the massive amounts of ordnance used to destroy land targets in WW2 and the high cost of manning a battleship.

[tomhalla]

As you picked the same battle as I was thinking of, I cannot really disagree. Taranto and Pearl Harbor were replays of Port Arthur, a surprise strike at an anchored fleet.

[F-Man]

When did the battleship become obsolete? Never, even if only in our hearts. ❤

[tykit]

What an incredible sight to see a battleship in dry dock, breathtaking actually

[hughmarloweverest]

I have read that the triple A defensive weapons on Prince of Wales and Repulse often jammed during their demise because the ammo were duds. The tropical conditions had degraded the ammo. The ships were employed by people who totally under estimated the Japanese and their land based assets. And notably, no carrier was nearby to offer air defense.

[johngaltline]

I like Ryan's answer at to when Battleships were superseded. As for when they became obsolete, my answer is March of 1971. While it would take some time after that for the militaries of the world to catch up, and in some ways they still never realized how inexpensive they could actually make things if they wanted to, the introduction of the cheap, Intel 4004, the first micro-processor, meant that you could put a guidance computer on a missile that could reliably and cheaply outperform the targeting of any battleship. The micro-processor took away the need for complex engineering with expensive manpower to build it and made the guidance system a disposable part that outperformed a battleship. Oddly, for whatever reason, the armed forces still love to pay way more than these things are worth today.

[peterdrought]

Need also to consider submarines. USS Sealion sank a battleship under way. HMS Royal Oak was sunk at Scapa Flow, admittedly while at anchor.

[bread]

I agree with you on when the battleship lost its place at the top, however I think the battleship lost its place in the fleet when guided missiles became effective and accurate weapons comparative to cannon fire

[CRUZER]

Since the Battle Ships have been reactivated on occasion there were those needs that could only be filled with a Battle Ship. If we had active Battle Ships today, a need could easily appear.
Great video, Ryan....
Russ

[DarthMcLeod]

I was thinking Coral Sea or even Midway. Rather than a single one-off event, we start seeing how carriers fight and the battles they wage made bystanders and defense platforms out of ships armed with guns.

[turbobird]

Think the question is also “when did battleships become cost ineffective as a capital ship?”

[peterhessedal]

I honestly think it was in 1991 when Gulf War 1 showed us that cruise missiles were effective at taking out targets and their launch sites were much easier to maintain than a full Battleship.

[erbmiller]

Sinking of prince of Wales is a fair assessment. One could also argue midway, the sinking of Yamato or musashi are dates that could also be used. I think an appropriate time would be 17 March 2006 when the last battleships were stuck from the naval register. I believe the battleship is still a useful tool of war and hasn't been fully eclipsed. The bayonet/spear seen action in 2011, it's use dates back how far? Don't forget we're also seeing the Maxim and mosin nagant being fielded in the Russo-Ukraine War.

[thekidfromcleveland]

I always thought that the loss of Musashi and Yamato. Because the navy intentionally held the battleships back as a last resort. Clearly they trusted In the carriers to do the job or at least take the first swing. All the other instances have asterisks, but the method in taking down those ships was conscious. Not to mention they were the biggest ever built and if that couldn't survive a carrier attack....nothing could. And the lack of battleships or even heavily armored ships after the war confirms this

[ronswinford]

I agree that by mid-1942 or Midway the Aircraft carrier had become the top ship in anyone's Navy, but I am not sure that a modern version of an Iowa, with armor, and vertical launch missiles as well as some big guns would not be as much of an asset as the battleship always has been. Is it the key ship in the fleet, no, but does it still have a place, I think so. Like you have said many times, nothing currently exists that can provide shore bombardment like those big guns can. Ask the soldiers from Korea or Vietnam if those battleships were obsolete as they hurled Volkswagon-sized shells over their heads at the enemy.

[mytube]

I don't think of them becoming obsolete at a specific date, but rather over a decade or so.
Beginning with carriers being able to sink battleships reliably, and ending with anti-ship missiles that can take out large, armored ships.

Shore bombardment is something a battleship can do, but that role could also be fulfilled by a dedicated artillery ship with a fairly low displacement, no real armor, small crew and low speed in an uncontested environment. Perhaps something like 10 000 tons with two unarmored turrets, each with four 16-in guns, a modest powerplant and a large supply of shells and powder.

[rabidbigdog]

Before watching this vid, I was thinking it was when HMS Prince-Of-Wales was sunk by a collection of aircraft, it made it clear that size/expense of capital ship was not justifiable. Then the destruction of Yamaho demonstrated that even more clearly.

[Knight]

November 1940, the attack on Taranto, May 1941, the demise of KMS Bismarck, December 1941, Pearl Harbor and the demise of the HMS Prince of Wales and the HMS Repulse, the demise of RM Roma, September 1943, October 1944, the demise of IJN Musashi and April 1945, the demise of IJN Yamato

[fredsafarowic]

The date of the first successful fleet problem (bombing the Panama Canal?) using the Lexington and Saratoga was the beginning of the end for the battleship as the front line unit.