Will studying church history destroy your testimony?

In this episode, Dave talks about a framework originally outlined by Bruce and Marie Hafen that can help members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints formulate realistic expectations, and can help them approach tough questions in a productive way.

FOOTNOTES (sorry links aren't clickable yet. That feature is coming soon. In the meantime, copy/paste!)

Notes:

— “We need to look longer and harder at difficult questions and pat answers, but without lurching from extreme innocence to extreme skepticism. Today’s world is full of hard-core skeptics who love to ‘enlighten’ those who are stuck in idealistic simplicity, offering them the doubt and agnosticism of complexity as a seemingly brave new way of life” Bruce and Marie Hafen, “Faith Is Not Blind,” pg. 13.

— There are cons associated with staying permanently in Stage 1 or Stage 2. The Hafens teach in their book, “When we don’t see the gap [between the ideal and the real] or we focus only on the ideal while blocking out the real, our perspective lacks depth. If this is our paradigm, faith can be both blind and shallow, because it lacks awareness and careful thought. These limitations can keep us from extending our roots into the soil of real experience deeply enough to form the solid foundation needed to withstand the strong winds of adversity. Growing deep roots requires that we learn to work through uncomfortable realities” (pg. 12).

On the other side you’ve got the dangers of Stage Two: “...despite the value of becoming aware of complexity, one’s acceptance of the clouds of uncertainty can become so complete that the iron rod fades into the surrounding mists, and skepticism becomes not just a helpful tool but a guiding philosophy” (pg. 12-13).

[BunnyWatson-kw]

Studying church history actually strengthened my testimony. We as church members need to see the human side of history. We need to see that most religions have a controversial history, particularly in the early period.

[lanakila]

GREAT ADVICE!!!! Keep doing these, at 84 I’ve learned complexities are part of life, dealing with them so you can SEE the “BIG” picture takes adult reasoning, research, open mindedness and solutions! It’s like rejecting your American citizenship because historically there have been huge mistakes - but when you look at corrections, growth, adherence to progress with rational decisions, the overall value of being an American in this world is priceless!

[brucenorth]

Great video, David!
I had hard questions while in college in the 1990s, just before the internet was a thing, and had to use a southern US university library to research. There was definitely a bias against the Church in whoever managed the collection, but I found peace along with answers: the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is true and my testimony became stronger than ever.
My approach: I never doubted the Church (because I believed Jesus can establish a true church in my day). I was simply convinced I didn't have enough information yet. Once I did, the truth of the restored gospel was obvious. Prayer confirmed my findings.

[MakeupPearls]

When we studied D&C in 2021, I asked God for help with Joseph Smith. I needed to know if he is truly a prophet. I got my answer 9 months later, during a fast. Joseph Smith is truly a prophet of God.

[LdsTiktokPreservation]

Turning to right and original sources instead of the assumptions and twisted truths to fit a narrative from naysayers is what helped me. With history for example, I turn to the records made by those who lived it and how they experienced, felt, and their “whys” in their original context. People today will place their own context through presentism and pessimism. Involving God is VERY important as the Holy Ghost will bring understanding to things with no official answer. For me the key was continuing to seek these types of answers beyond where other people stop, beyond the accusatory fog, that takes people away from the iron rod. Stage 3 is a great place to be. Thank you for this video <3

[katiethulin]

Psalm 73: "Those who trust in the Lord will be received up unto glory."
Garrit W Gong: "With our trust and faith in God, trials and afflictions can be consecrated for our good." All things for our good, April 2024 general conference

[MichaelRogerStDenis]

This channel is so important.
Keep up the great work!

[Rachel-emwk]

Studying church history certainly challenged my faith, but it was an important step in its growth. It forced perspectives about faith, religion, and people that I've never considered before. It hurt, but as I mapped out what to trust, what to forgive, and what didn't actually matter, the growing pains did eventually subsided, and I found that the church was more true than ever.

[groberjager]

oh no, it actually strengthened my testimony. You see, I knew those that were called to lead, then form the church were not perfect yet were given the responsibility to do that. So, things and choices were made that sometimes did not go how they were supposed to yet the church thrived, problems were solved and its growth was miraculous and we know why. Christ was in charge and that knowledge is so inspiring!!!

[alexlybbert]

Love this stuff, Dave! I love this framework and have moved through the stages without knowing it. I even went so far as testing out the "falling away from the church" stage (thankfully, I found God again and came back) and now I love to be in stage 3. I sort of have a "filing cabinet" in my mind of questions and doubts that I run in to where I file them away as "That will be answered later" if I can't find anything about it currently. It is such a good place to be. Highly recommend it. 10/10. Thank you for making these videos and keep it up!

[jeffwilson]

I was fortunate to know that God lives and the LDS Missionaries were his servants before I knew anything about the Church, its doctrines or history. Right out of the blue, I had a full blown spiritual revelation as I was listening to the Missionaries. And so I don't have any answers to the criticisms and I don't really care that I don't have any answers. God didn't restore his Church to contend with the devil but to save the sincere. Whether they are fully aware or not, Missionaries really are in service to the living God. I know this as well as i know there is a sun in the sky and that I live. And that true life is in the living God who is the head of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. It may appear unbelievable that the mighty God would choose untried, untested, inexperienced youth to represent him. But he does.

[BrianTerrill]

I learned a lot about commitment when I asked by grandpa how he put up with my grandma who had a tendency to yell at him right in front of everyone even while they were preparing for their 50th wedding anniversary. He was not a member of the church just keep that in mind, when he said "when I took your grandma, I took her for better or for worst and I got worst, but I took her and that's all there is to it"

[explorerofmind]

I’m glad that you mentioned divorce as an example.

[sebastianj.]

graeat pieces of advice for those who are seeking the truth, not only to grow our knowledge about the church history but to be able to face the lies that are spread in the media, movies, series or realities that somehow are targeting the church. And members who dont know the real facts are been decieved easily.

[Headfirst-M]

Its actually been comforting for me in ways to deep dive into history. I feel like Im more teetering towards the simplicity in complexity. Its been nice to have you as a helpful provider of good sources as well! Really helped me hold on

[ChrisRobison]

If you are going into studying church history thinking it won’t change you, then I would say you aren’t prepared with ears to hear or eyes to see. One of the important things McLaren shares about faith and belief in his book is that belief can be in anything and can sometimes be false or just wishful thinking. Faith, however, is the relentless pursuit of truth. Having authentic faith is shedding false belief as you go, not holding on to it for dear life. As such, depending on how your “faith” has been built up, studying church history could knock out those foundations—and that’s not a bad thing. Sometimes all the things that we’ve built up and call “testimony” are actually pretty fragile and need to be knocked down so that something better can take its place.

The very underpinnings of the question, “will studying church history destroy your testimony?” Is one based in fear in my opinion—fear that we are wrong. I think it is fear-based because of how we’ve been, frankly, indoctrinated to view the church above everything else—that losing it or leaving it has eternally damning consequences. One of the things I’ve noticed studying this topic and going through faith crisis is that I’ve had to change my thinking, my beliefs, and my faith—that I wasn’t right and that it was okay. I found that my faith was based on the church being true, a prophet—all human things. I found that when we say “testimony” in the church, we really mean certainty. If you want a good book on this topic I recommend Sin of Certainty by Pete Enns. When what you are trying to aim for is certainty, that’s not really faith, nor is it lasting. It doesn’t take long to realize that certainty can crumble really fast, that it doesn’t make a good foundation to build on.

I would, instead, suggest that you focus on God and figure that relationship out. Because, if that part isn’t there, nothing else really matters. I would also suggest that you don’t limit your study to just church history but widen it out to include God experiences in all traditions. In the end, it’s not the church that needs to be “true, ” but God—for God exists wholly apart and separate from the church. He existed before and will exist after the church. He is not the church and we should be forever grateful for that as that means lots of people have access to him in ways that make sense to them, not just us. And sometimes people will find God in this church, but a lot of times, people will find God elsewhere and we should celebrate that.

[RedemptionInChristGaming]

I like your emphasis on the point that we may be wrong sometimes. We should apply that to EVERYTHING, including our testimony. If you get scared thinking that your core beliefs are incorrect, that may be the Holy Ghost telling you to shift your mindset. Don't harden your heart. Be open to moving in whichever direction the Lord calls you.

[PD-Pro-Go]

Excellent video! As I’ve become more and more converted the easier it is for me to face new complexity.

I used to immediately jump to “oh no, the ex-mos know something I don’t” but now I think “they might know something I don’t, but they also probably have a VERY different perspective on that information than I will once I learn about it myself.” Which is true 100% of the time in my experience.

[mikeboyd]

Church history strengthens my testimony.

[Bigbluedome]

Yes. Horrifically. My shelf shattered.