Sapolskys self contradictory determinist claims #freewill #sapolsky #determinism #debunking #harris

[hebozhe]

Wow! Even the nondeterminists wouldn't touch this pile of nonsense.

[nonchalantguy]

A determinist would absolutely agree that they were predetermined to subscribe to determinism. This argument only highlights that the thoughts of a determinist are predetermined. This is further evidence for determinism 🤦🏿‍♂️😂

[Glassandcandy]

This is actually insane. How does the fact that thinking about determinism itself is causal somehow makes it no longer legitimate or true? Who told you that’s how it works?

[Mike-mkyt]

DAVID LAWRENCE SAID THIS: "There is no truth in a causal universe."

I can literally prove him wrong with one simple counterexample:

The calculator app on my smartphone is 100% "causal" *AND* 100% deterministic.

And guess what?

It can crank out 100% truths ALL DAY LONG:

1 + 1 = 2

2 + 2 = 4

Shall I go on?

His argument, therefore, is nonsense.

[TheAmishUpload]

So by this logic we should believe free will is true because we freely choose to believe it. No further investigation required. Very logical

[cambeyon]

This sounds like someone played mad libs and threw the word determinism in and we all get a laugh of what silly sentences are made from it. But the fact is this man is very determined to fight for free will no matter how illogical he may sound.

[terryzuniga]

Yes sir. We are all compelled to understand determinism. I don't feel pride for being a determinist, I had no choice lmao. You are compelled to believe it false but that doesn't change the nature that compelled u to your beliefs.

[mir]

If I were in a philosophy class and heard this I would walk out and ask for a refund. Not because I wanted to but because I was determined to LMAO

[AngryBilleh]

Determism makes more sense the more you think about it, cultures, upbringings, the religion you were borned into, what you were exposed to as a fetus, genetics, even something as small as to what you eat that day will contribute to the decisions that you make, I don't believe in freewill

[okwabena]

What if truth compels, such as the truth of death and gravitational pull? What if freewill is a side effect to defy or dampen the compelling truth (terror management theory)?

[georgepantzikis]

People are completely misunderstanding the point being made. It's not that facts of the matter can't exist in a deterministic universe, but it does mean that reason cannot be used as a tool to get to truth. For example, in a non-deterministic universe, you could say that the reason you think of 2 when I ask you what 1+1 is equal to is because it is true that 1+1=2. In a deterministic universe, however, you can never say that. It might be case that 1+1=2, however a determinist cannot say that he thinks 1+1=2 because of the truth of the statement or it's logical coherence. A determinist must say that the reason he thinks 1+1=2 is because of the sum total of prior causes. In fact, he cannot even say that the sum total of prior causes is the reason for his thoughts, because that would imply a rational engagement with his situation, which is impossible in a deterministic framework. The only reason for any given mental state or process is the sum total of prior events. It is not logical rigour, truth, or anything like that. For a determinist, all logic is is a series of mental events, caused by prior events. There is no reason to suppose that this chain of reactions is resulting in anything true. If thought and logic are not themselves free, then we cannot verify or deny any claim. The events in my brain trigger 1+1=2, yet the ones in your head trigger 1+1=3. How do we reconcile this? We cannot say that we use logic, because if we say that then we are admitting that we come to a decision based not on a series of pre-established causes, but based on rational thought and enquiry. In a world where there is no freedom, there is never any possibility of having chosen a different path, and therefore no possibility of enquiry. The result of this is that, the very logical structure that was used to prove that determinism is correct has been made illegitimate by the deterministic theory itself. A theory that leads to contradictions cannot be true.

[nathanclark]

I don’t understand why the truth of something depends on whether it is compelled or not. Those seem unrelated.

[deacon]

So if something is causally compelled it can’t be true? What is truth?

[dubbelkastrull]

Can't something true be compelled?

[Grandpa_Max]

Invalid proof. There is infact a lack of proof of the existence of if not logic is valid only in our universe or not. So since logic is a probability, freedom of religion between determinism and free will will remain unsettled indefinitely.

[tescOne]

A determinist equipped with some average common sense (what determinism builds from, so he should be good) would agree that the thought is causally compelled.
What makes you think someone that by definition looks for simple rules to apply them everywhere, would somehow be an incoherent here and say "no, ONLY THAT THING is not compelled by anything".

[marymcauley]

Something can be both determined and true, you silly ninky nonk! 😅

[chrishalasz]

Wherein does logic determine (sorry, couldn’t resist) a compelled thought is not true?

[fernandopineda]

I dont think determinists believe their argument comes from outside the chain of causality

[Cin]

Things can be true or not no matter if compelled to believe it or not.

Also maybe the stone can comprehend it has been thrown just not alter his path.