Robert Sapolsky on Free Will and Determinism

The Michael Shermer Show # 379

Robert Sapolsky is the author of A Primate’s Memoir, The Trouble with Testosterone, and Why Zebras Don’t Get Ulcers. His most recent book, Behave, was a New York Times bestseller and named a best book of the year by the Washington Post and the Wall Street Journal. He is a professor of biology and neurology at Stanford University and the recipient of a MacArthur Foundation “Genius Grant.” His new book is Determined: A Science of Life Without Free Will.

Shermer and Sapolsky discuss: free will, determinism, compatibilism, libertarian free will • Christian List’s 3 related capacities for free will • how what people believe about free will and determinism influences their behaviors • the three horsemen of determinism: (1) reductionism (2) predetermination; (3) epiphenomenalism • dualism • punishment • retributive vs. restorative justice •Is the self an illusion? • game theory evolution of punishment • luck • and meaning (or lack thereof).

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[jeffgeoffray]

"This is a book about the garbage collector." Have watched a few interviews with Professor Sapolsky about Determinism and thought this was the most original insight about the book so far. Good work Michael.

[krishnapartha]

Outwardly Robert is knowledge, inwardly he is pure love. ❤

[joshuamartin]

Ordered ‘Behave’ and ‘Determined’ while listening to this. Love Sapolsky’s candid style and genuine enthusiasm.

[EvoBioChemical]

I am grateful for the collective sequence of events that led to Robert Sapolsky's always fascinating, clear, and entertaining delivery of important information.

[chapterme]

Chapters (Powered by ChapterMe) -
00:00 - Intro
03:14 - Sapolsky's book "Determined" explores determinism's challenges and social justice impacts.
10:17 - The book's focus: life's unfairness, luck's role, and debunking meritocracy myths.
18:23 - Criticizes compatibilists for holding onto free will for comfort over coherence.
20:29 - Thought experiment on infidelity admission highlights determinism's emotional conflict.
22:46 - Struggle between determinism's acceptance and human need for agency.
23:41 - Exploring life rewind: deterministic universe versus learning from the past.
26:23 - Chaotic ISM's role in unpredictability and determinism.
28:42 - Learning influences future behavior within a determined past.
32:14 - Genetics, environment's impact on behavior, exemplified by addiction.
43:42 - Challenging free will by questioning intent and understanding causality.
47:20 - Brain injuries, tumors, ACE impact on antisocial behavior.
48:53 - Higher ACE scores increase antisocial behavior likelihood.
52:24 - Stress's effect on emotional regulation and long-term impact.
54:30 - Socioeconomic status affects early-life brain development.
56:03 - Brain scans of criminals reveal biological factors in behavior.
01:11:09 - Decisions influenced by external factors like stress, beyond consciousness.
01:19:23 - Empathy over judgment for issues like obesity, considering genetics.
01:20:47 - Life aspects often influenced by uncontrollable factors.
01:26:59 - Myth of closure through capital punishment; complexity of emotions.
01:31:50 - Public health approach to violence: containment and root cause understanding.
01:33:41 - Sapolsky's opposition to capital punishment, citing wrongful convictions.
01:34:55 - Advocacy for humane criminal justice, focusing on understanding, not punishment.
01:37:08 - Promoting a Scandinavian model for dealing with dangerous individuals.
01:40:02 - Advocating rationality in societal problem-solving, emphasizing empathy.
01:41:23 - Existential view: no ultimate meaning in an indifferent causal universe.
01:44:54 - Different levels of analysis
01:46:34 - Feynman point on nature adding instead of taking away anything
01:47:47 - What's the bigger picture here? Utopia
01:49:38 - Good justice now when alive and Free will issue
01:52:02 - Outro

[vernongrant]

I drove out of the work carpark just after turning 40 and thought to myself "if I keep drinking like this, I'll be a diabetic by 50".
Now 60, I haven't had a drink for 20 years. I often wonder where that thought came from.

[zachvanslyke]

Mr. Shermer, thank you for what you do. I don’t always agree with you, but I love your consistency and authenticity. The world needs people like you; you’re a reliable compass of sorts.
🙏

[elischrock]

Gratitude and compassion. Thanks for sharing.

[coachafella]

Blame and praise make no sense whatsoever. How long will it take for that realization and understanding to percolate through society and have a significant impact on how we deal with each other?

[workingTchr]

This is the absolute best talk I have heard from Sapolsky. Shermer really brought him out.

[pete_shand]

Great interview! Appreciated Shermer’s thoughtful questions

[ahermannblue]

Thirty-three years ago, when he was six years old, my son was diagnosed with Tourette's Syndrome by a well regarded pediatric neurologist. (It was an early age for diagnosis at that time.) The doctor said to me "he has absolutely no control over anything he does." He also advised me that "he can benefit most from an extremely structured environment." In the following years when I met with school advisors or talked with close friends I would advise them that my son had "absolutely no control over anything he does" and that an extremely structured environment had to be created for him, they would look at me with horror and disbelief to the point where I stopped saying it because everyone, without exception, looked at me as being an aberrant mother.

[zumpano]

I'm halfway through Determined and expect the 2nd half to be just as wonderful. Great interview.

[Rocky_Anunnaki]

GOOD DAY Gentlemen.

I've been patiently waiting for you to have Robert sapolsky on the show.

🔥 Rock on 🔥

[СергейДядькин-яф]

I'm reading this book now. And this is deterministic pleasure!

[roberthornack]

We worship the monetarily wealthy criminals while criminalizing the poor unsuccessful ones, while at the same time instilling the mantra that greed is good! & we wonder why we're so effed up!!!

[beegee]

Just received Dr. Sapolsky’s book yesterday. This is a great intro to it!

[PimpinNinjaU]

I've realized that I may have no free will, but knowing that has allowed me to "guide" the way I react and grow from new variables. Thank you Robert for being an influence in my life that has sparked self reflection.

[chito]

You're not a tree, you can leave. The attitude of gratitude. These guys are really smart.

[carolspencer]

Hello to you both
Love your work Robert.
Currently think we are wee waves looking to connect with the magnificence of the ocean.
Super grateful for these shared conversations.
💜