Too Many People go to University

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Filmed at the Royal Geographical Society on 30th January 2007.

Speakers for the motion: Claire Fox, Anatole Kaletsky, Jenna Nicholas
Speakers against the motion: Baroness Onora O'Neill, Mary Ann Sieghart
Chair: Sir Clement Freud

[usayeed]

In all honesty, unless you’re genuine about pursuing knowledge or establishing a career in your chosen field, the general population has no business going to university. The fact that it’s a requirement now for prospective employees who aren’t academically inclined to possess a degree is an utter travesty. We now live in a culture where young people not only find it increasingly difficult to find jobs, but we slap on £30k worth of debt on them as a minimum and force an entire generation of people to be miserable in their studies- to the point that the only solace they have is to go out and party rather than rely on their passion in their studies to motivate them.

Most young people, if given the choice, would not choose to pursue university. If apprenticeships, vocational studies and training for specific trades were given equal prestige by employers and governments, we’d have much better prospects for growth and development for society- and we would progress more intellectually if university were restricted to the academically inclined. Going to university as of today has been reduced to an utter joke.

[normanhill]

Too many of the courses are just worthless fluff, filled by people who don't deserve to be there, but for the University it's bums on seats money in the bank.

[svendbosanvovski]

You pay, and they give you the piece of paper with a seal on it.

[the_ent]

University should be academically hard but free to everyone

[casiandsouza]

There is a false belief that spending on education justifies income. Income should be justified by the job done, not by the preparation for the job.

[lohphat]

People are encouraged to enroll due to higher education is now a cartel that's motivated by profit. The more students it processes, the more profit it reaps regardless of the quality or need for the subjects studied. How many "communications/social media majors" does the world need?

[jotealarcon]

Internet is the gateway for all the achieved knowledge you could ever want. Differences between people are, now more than ever, due to their natural inclinations and sensibilities. Higher education provides academic degrees, not knowledge.

[JohnSmith-doop]

Nothing is funnier than an intellectual getting charged £50 to fix the washer in a dripping tap or unblock a sink. Any economist will tell you that if you increase the supply of something it's value goes down. It's getting to the point where someone needs a Phd, before they are considered intellectually superior to the rest of society, and it takes them 1/3 or a life time to do it. Get qualified as a plumber or electrician and you've got a good job for life. The work itself keeps you physically fit.

[MilitantOldLady]

A university degree is a devalued commodity. There is a horrible inflation on graduates.

[cliffordhatton]

Whilst doing some part-time work on a reclamation site I came across a case full of secondary school science exercise books from 1961...they were a joy to read. Beautiful handwriting, excellent diagrams, well-worded and highly professional. ..wish I'd kept them.

[dsptchr]

The University is not a replacement for family- or community-structures.

[dragonfist]

“Getting an education was a bit like a communicable sexual disease. It made you unsuitable for a lot of jobs and then you had the urge to pass it on.” Terry Pratchet

[burmanhands]

Well done "University" your utterly conditioned elite class was a success story. The point is not to teach us to think for ourselves but how to conform to the prevailing doctrines - they should be called "Singularity."

[jeremyhowes]

Going to University doesn't guarantee an education.

[bobsimpson]

Interesting to note that only Jenna and Anatole were actually "speakers." All the others were "readers!"

[jozimarm]

Half of Americans have never read a newspaper, half have never voted and another is Great point in the whole debate

[MicahBuzanANIMATION]

I can't figure out what the first speaker was trying to say. We live in an emergent economy. Everything is in a state of change, from technology to education. There are people making a good living from youtube (and the internet in general) and stand-up comedy. I think universities absolutely should be open to criticism from the students. When any institution is immune to criticism, you have the perfect environment for dogmatism and fascism. Also, grades don't mean shit when it comes to creative thinking or even intelligence. Many geniuses dropped out of high school or college. There's no connection necessarily between creative success and financial success. Nikola Tesla died in poverty, and yet if you turn on the TV you'll see many millionaires who have contributed nothing to society. It's a schizophrenic world. A College Degree can't guarantee anything  other than student loans that could potentially take a lifetime to pay off. 

[MarekDz]

In a modern university Friedrich Gauss would not get a proper education and would not become one of the most prominent mathematician, physicist and astronomer of all times. The second and third degree universities are not giving a chance for lower class children to advance socially. They take this tiny chance away from such talented children of lower class parents as Friedrich Gauss was.

[paxdriver]

The baroness seems wildly out of touch. Systemic cost inflation with reduced quality output is not an excuse for branding, campus upgrades, and adding fees to recoup "costs" of forgiven debt.

Think about it - you tell students they must go to school if they want to raise a family and live comfortably, then you coddle them through it, nobody benefits. It is entirely a waste of the professors, administrators, students time and tax payers money. It's pretty straightforward economics 101

[SunnyIlha]

The actual hard practice of intellectual exercise, at all, of any kind (forget about with vigor) has been nearly absent in post- secondary "education".

It's a mill. Churning out tuition-had-paid piece of paper holders.