Debunking the 'Fine Tuning' Argument (Sean Carroll)

Physicist Sean Caroll lays some of the problems with the popular "fine tuning" arguments for a god. See the links below for additional resources:

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[MalachiMarvin]

At 3:53 he brings up his fifth point: that if the theists played the game properly, they would first describe the kind of universe they would expect to exist under theism.

In fact, this is precisely what was done.  The ancients thought they were in a God created universe and they described what they expected it to be and they were fantastically wrong.  They didn't predict anything that we actually found.

[chrisose]

And how did William Lane Craig respond?
"God did it."

[tech]

And then WLC went on to vomit all over the microphone for several minutes.

[MalachiMarvin]

His argument that a universe created by God would not need fine tuning is dead on.  With God, human life is compatible with the insides of a blazing hot furnace (Daniel 3:23).  This is the god the Israelite's worshipped.

With such a god, everything is arbitrary.  Such a universe would be more akin to an Alice in Wonderland universe than what we actually observe.

[Demonizer]

William Lane Craig got absolutely destroyed in this debate

[jonkrieger]

This is so great, I've been looking for a great debunking of fine tuning for a long time, thanks Dr. Caroll!

[seandonahue]

To quote Monty Pyton, ” We shine out like a shaft of gold, when all around is dark.”😁

[kellyorrichardweddle]

Brilliant arguments against fine tuning.

[slackjaw]

Those were fairly indisputable arguments made.i guess I'll have to watch the debate to see how they were addressed by the apologist. WLC is a modern day snake oil salesman though, so I'm sure he'll do his best to sidestep every issue brought up.

[JohannesWiberg]

I hate it when people who debate WLC come unprepared, because WLC is a skilled debater (even if his reasoning is hopeless). Carroll did great here. I'm too scared to watch WLC's response, I'll just end up smashing an axe into my new monitor.

[FaisalAzad]

Over the years, I have noticed one thing about atheists: They praise their side of the speaker without listening to anything their side or the other side have said.

How do I know? Their comment is usually based around the person themselves and not the content. They will praise their side by saying "He articulated himself well" " He destroyed him" and they will insult the other side. Examples are in this entire comment section.

Ask them to rephrase an argument and they will be lost

[rikardotsamsiyu]

Sean Carol: “Fine tuning, if anything, is an argument for atheism not theism.”
Me: 🤯

[omnipitous]

I haven't heard these arguments before. but they are very well articulated.

[theguythatmakesyoumad]

There ONLY NEEDS TO BE ONE argument ever against theism:

The correlation of religiosity (or astrology, hemeopathy, etc), per person, or per nation, plotted against quality of life is astounding.

You will find that quality of life, on average, goes down a lot, if a nation is overwhelmingly religious. You will find more religious people than atheists in prison, you will find more tolerance amongst the irreligious, you will find better health by those who reject faith-healing and go to a doctor instead, and you will find more scientific discoveries amongst those who don't accept anything just because they're told.

I'm not implying causation just yet.
You might go to prison and come out more religious. You might end up being poor and turn to god. You might have exhausted all medicine before turning to the alternatives, and yes, you might find a friendlier face on gullible and trusting people.

But more often than not we see that people who are by any definition stupid or blind enough to fall for these scams only hurt themselves intelectually, financially, and even physically in the long run.

Even at this point I still don't care, but I see my insurance premiums go up, I see the educational system being eroded away, I see freedom of speech being encroached upon, and I see many social programs under threat. And I have to do as THEY tell me to? Go dig a hole and sleep in it. Forever.

[progodspeed]

I wish Dr. Sean Carrol, who I admit is the strongest debater in skeptic side, would go against Dr. Hugh Ross, the strongest debater on the creation side. That would actually be a way more productive argument...

[ashley_brown]

I watched the whole debate, and as much as I'd like for Dr Craig to win, this guy had the best arguments, by far. Dr Craig really dissapointed me on this one, even though I usually enjoy his debates very much and he almost always wins imo.

[scipioafricanus]

he hasn't 'debunked' anything. he just advocates a different metaphysical explanation for the real phenomena of fine-tuning.

[someguy-cvjd]

Sean Carrol completely fails in refuting the fine tuning argument, very poor arguments are made here... Furthermore the rest of his arguments fail completely, they are all really really bad. Carrol did not win this debate.

[ThestMrJohn]

EmbraceRationality
REJECTtheSupernatural
.
ThereAreNoGods
ThereIsNoAuthorityButYourself
!

[erichert]

God:

"OK, let's create a universe especially for the beings I'm going to bring into existence. OK, we here's a nice little earth for them...let's put some volcanoes and hurricanes here and here. Now, let's put a deadly radiation belt here...and some black holes over here and here, and here's a neutron star spitting out deadly radiation...and...now let's stretch everything so far apart that they'll never be able to reach of anything and make sure that it's intensely cold and dark, oh, and can't forget to suck all the air out as