Don't Talk to the Police? Massad Ayoob's 5 Points after a Self-Defense Shooting. Critical Mas Ep14

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The prevailing thought out there is "Never talk to the police!" But is that always the case, even in a self-defense shooting? Having established why you shouldn't leave the scene after a self defense-shooting, now Massad Ayoob answers the question "What do you say?" Massad has decades of experience as an expert witness in self-defense shootings. This is his 5-point checklist to go though with the authorities after a self-defense shooting. Follow these steps and you might make sure you aren't implicated in a crime.

See part one of this discussion: Don't Leave the Scene

ABOUT MASSAD AYOOB:
Massad Ayoob has been handgun editor of GUNS magazine and law enforcement columnist for AMERICAN HANDGUNNER since the 1970s, and has published thousands of articles in gun magazines, martial arts publications, and law enforcement journals. He is the author of some twenty books on firearms, self-defense, and related topics, including “In the Gravest Extreme” and “Deadly Force,” widely considered to be authoritative texts on the topic of the use of lethal force.

The winner of the Outstanding American Handgunner of the Year Award in 1998, Mas has won several state and regional handgun shooting championships. Ayoob was the first person to earn the title of Five Gun Master in the International Defensive Pistol Association. He is the current President of the Second Amendment Foundation. He served 19 years as chair of the Firearms Committee of the American Society of Law Enforcement Trainers, and several years as a member of the Advisory Board of the International Law Enforcement Educators and Trainers Association. In addition to teaching for those groups, he has also taught
for the International Association of Law Enforcement Firearms Instructors and the International Homicide Investigators seminars.

Mas has received judicial recognition as an expert witness for the courts in weapons and shooting cases since 1979, and served as a fully sworn and empowered, part time police officer for 43 years, mostly at supervisor rank. Ayoob founded the Lethal Force Institute in 1981 and served as its director until 2009, and now trains through Massad Ayoob Group. He has
appeared on CLE-TV delivering continuing legal education for attorneys, through the American Law Institute and American Bar Association, and has been retained to train attorneys to handle deadly force cases through the Armed Citizens Legal Defense Network. Ayoob served for two
years as co-vice chair of the Forensic Evidence Committee of the National Association of Criminal Defense Lawyers. He also appeared in each episode of Personal Defense TV (Sportsman’s Channel).

0:00 - Recap from Don't Leave the Scene
1:30 - Never talk to the Police?
3:10 - The 5-Point Checklist
3:45 - 1. Establish the Active Dynamic
4:25 - 2. Indicate You Will Cooperate
5:09 - 3. Point out any Evidence
6:42 - 4. Point out any Witnesses
7:24 - 5. Request an Attorney
11:12 - The 5-Point Checklist
11:51 - Don't Freeze

#MassadAyoob #WilsonCombat #CriticalMas
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If you're guilty, you need an attorney. If you're innocent, you DEFINITELY NEED AN ATTORNEY!

johnwatson
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1. "He attacked me"
2. "I'll sign a complaint"
3. "There's the evidence"
4. "There are the witnesses"
5. "I'll be happy to cooperate, but I need to speak with my attorney before I say anything else."

Thanks Mas!

seannovack
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My CCW instructor is a LEO. He said if you ever have to use your gun in self defense, DO NOT say anything to the police except, “I’ll be more than happy to answer any questions, but I want my lawyer present”.

AdrenalineWins
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It blows my mind that the Supreme Court has made it clear that police have to warn you that it’s a bad idea to talk to the police and people still think talking to the police is a good idea.

otetechie
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I’m an American. This happened in Texas. I was pulled out of a cell in jail and drilled with questions by a law officer. I hadn’t been allowed to speak to anyone for weeks. I remained steadfast. I told him I knew my rights. And I wanted a lawyer present.
After about 30 minutes he grew frustrated and took me back to the cell.
About a week later I was allowed to talk to my lawyer. If this happens to you … be patient.

tanksouth
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When a police officer gets into a "bad situation" they always remain silent until they talk to a union representative and lawyer.

commiesarehorrible
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As the saying goes, if the cops are looking to arrest someone, nothing you can say will talk you out of jail-- but you can certainly talk your way into it!

AmbuBadger
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My friend is an attorney. His client shot a man trying to kill him for dating his ex. His client was 22. Sure enough, he blabbed away to the "understanding and sympathetic police officer". The asst. DA, for whom my attorney friend said was a real piece of work, set bail where he could not make it. He spent 7 months in jail awaiting trial. The case was dismissed in an hour.

tomperkins
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My neighbor told me to NEVER EVER talk to police after you were in a shooting. And he's a lieutenant of almost 30yrs with my local police department. He was like "don't you say shit but I'll be more than willing to talk after I've spoken with my attorney. And you keep on saying it until you get your attorney". I remember this like it was yesterday. And he told me this back in the 90s.

mrmerc
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I can’t repeat this enough, conflict avoidance is rule one!

MrCrimenews
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Part of the problem is prosecutors want to win at any cost, your guilt or innocence rarely matters to them. Most of them will do any dirty trick including withholding evidence to convict you.

huwhitecavebeast
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Twice I've had police tell me that I was at fault. Once, when I was attacked and kicked to the ground by a crazy teenager (I'm a senior citizen) and the other, I was on the road when a man backed out of his driveway ramming my car. Both officers blamed me even though witnesses established my story.
Cops can really mess up the truth.

LRTrack
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"You've just prevailed in a battle to the death with the apex predator on planet Earth; feral man."
Holy smokes.

Iceaxehikes
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I was in an incident at night in a high crime urban area on the job in my utility company vehicle at my company garage and the police during the questioning asked me “what did you think the guys wanted when they approached you?” I said that I thought they were going to offer to sell me drugs which is a pretty regular occurrence and the cops wrote in the report that I was there to buy drugs not that I was at the specific place on my work order doing my job. It was cleared up by the detectives but it blew my mind that the beat cops wrote that

anonymousbosch
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I was involved in a deadly force encounter, and I can say with certainty that not talking too much is more difficult than making the decision to fire.
The adrenaline dump hits hard and, for me personally, I felt that I made the right choice and ended up trying to prove self defense on the scene. I didn't know that was a bad idea, at the time. I got very lucky that there were cameras that caught most of my recollection of the event which corroborated my statement.
That said, when I was interviewed by the detective, he initially had the Texas penal code book opened to the "homicide" section. That was scarier than the incident itself. Now, I know better. Thanks to people like Mr. Ayoob.
Short and simple answers to the first responders, and then ask for your lawyer. Don't say too many details because it may come out a little different later because that adrenaline will make someone mis speak slightly and you could end up in trouble if it goes to court.
Like I said, I got lucky. It could have ended up much differently if it weren't for the cameras backing up my in depth statement of events.

RdeneckTech
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"Never talk to the police" is a good motto in any instance.

wullahblack
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As far as #3, pointing out evidence, I'd note that we all have a very powerful tool in our pocket. Take pictures and video of the scene as soon as possible, in case evidence gets missed or altered before being documented by the police.

daveduncan
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Wow, there is a wealth of information here. Many thanks.

A policeman who lived nearby and learned over the years that I was one of the good guys, gave me a tip. Similar to your fantastic advice, he said, "Tell police, I would like to assist but right now, I'm really shook up, not sure what really happened. I'm feeling rather ill. I really think I need to go to the emergency room and be seen by a doctor".

That does three things.
1. You will not go to the police station where you are questioned repeatedly. Do not have to worry about contradicting self.
2. It gives you an escape to cease answering questions on the site.
3. You won't sound like a criminal demanding a lawyer for protection.

Depending on the state or city policy, the police will drive you to emergency room and drop you off so they don't get stuck with the bill. If they escort you to the desk most of the time the dept is liable for the cost.

Or, they bring an ambulance with EMT to check you out. You can still insist going to emergency room. Main thing with claiming illness is it gets you away from the scene, and friends of the victim.

unclemikeb
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21 plus year criminal defense attorney here and former prosecutor. Just wanted to say this is great advice. Very well done.

darrickbanda
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This is so true. I was a victim in assault. There was no gun involved. I told the police what I could remember shortly after the incident took place, (he was charged and went to trial) but later when I testified 2 years after the assault, I literally could not remember the sequence correctly. The highpowered lawyer pointed out I was a liar. He got not guilty. My life was on hold for 2 years. You cannot function as a normal person if you constantly think about the incident, it was getting so tough on myself, so I forced myself to forget about it after 6 months. The trial simply got continued and continued and continued to no end. It was not a Rittenhouse trial or anything. Assault with broken bone case. Its a shame that the process is so slow and no consideration or convenience for the victim is there in the process.

PM-ohxs