The Problem With Secular Architecture - Jonathan Pageau

- VIDEO NOTES

Jonathan Pageau is a French Canadian icon carver, public speaker and YouTuber exploring the symbolic patterns that underlie our experience of the world, how these patterns emerge and come together, manifesting in religion, art and in popular culture. He's also the editor of the Orthodox Arts Journal and host of the Symbolic World blog and podcast.

- LINKS

Jonathan's channel: @JonathanPageau

- TIMESTAMPS

0:00 Why didn’t you want to come on the show?
2:02 Doesn’t the Bible ban drawing God?
8:05 The problem with the Sistine Chapel
15:10 The problem of ugly modern buildings
22:38 Does secularism cause ugly buildings?
26:51 The problem of modern cities
30:40 Why are religious buildings beautiful?
35:26 “Progress” and trends in architecture
43:27 Icons vs idols
52:25 Why do people think you’re speaking “woo”?
57:22 Where do you go for wisdom?

- SPECIAL THANKS

As always, I would like to direct extra gratitude to my top-tier patrons:

John Early
Dmitry C.
Mouthy Buddha
Solaf

- CONNECT

SOCIAL LINKS:

Snapchat: cosmicskeptic

- CONTACT

Or send me something:

Alex O'Connor
Po Box 1610
OXFORD
OX4 9LL
ENGLAND

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[theodorelocke]

TIMESTAMPS

0:00 - start
59:03 - end

[PaulVanderKlay]

This went well! Kudos to you Alex for doing what others couldn't.

[renaud_gagne]

I think this calls for part 2 with a deeper exploration.

[JoshWiniberg]

Pageau is such an intriguing and interesting guest. I've been thinking recently that my atheism is really a reaction against reductionism. When you find religious people with a more sophisticated take, who are also wary of the "man in the sky" conception of god, it does make me think there are forms of religious thinking I can respect. It just seems that many modern religious types have an extremely unsophisticated interpretation of religion, and that often provokes an equally unsophisticated reaction from us atheists. A necessary reaction, in my view, when religion begins making scientific claims, but maybe we would do better to not only reduce ourselves to the same literalist interpretations as the people we oppose precisely for that same reductionism.

[mad-official]

This conversation flew by. I can't believe how much I enjoyed this. Hope you have him back on again.

[callunaherissonne]

Well, I for one am glad Jonathan reconsidered. Great conversation, thank you both.

[hearstboy]

Is it just me, or did this conversation feel short? I was fascinated by the conversation, it was great, and could have listened to the two of you go at it for a few more hours. I think it's because you both came into this conversation with the intent to understand each other while still being genuine to yourselves.

I've always been interested in imagery and symbols as a juxtaposition of aesthetics and meaning. I was particularly intrigued by the explanation of how one can justify judeo-christian iconography in light of the biblical commandment to not make such images.

Thank you for this interview!

[alandiaz]

Big congrats Alex. This is one of the best interviews of Jonathan I have seen. Sad to see it end. Hope there is a part 2

[joshmuehlendorf]

Wow Alex. Great job letting this episode happen. You had some questions cued up and placed them in the exact right spot. I’d bet $100 that you had dozens of questions but you had the wisdom to let them go and let the conversation take its own life. Well done!

[lelezz]

As a first-time viewer of Alex, I am pleasantly surprised by his open-minded attitude in a dialogue about religion!

[blondetapperware]

Thanks for having Jonathan Pageau on! He's awesome. I'm always interested in hearing what he has to say.

[NoTypeK]

wow I never imagined in a million years that Jonathan would come on this podcast. I'm surprised.

[HAMETE]

I didn't know Jonathan and I found the conversation super interesting.

[deadfrg]

Yep, these here are load-bearing walls… but are they Lord-bearing walls? 🤨

[AFringedGentian]

That was such a rich conversation. Alex, I sorely misjudged you— you really are a seeker. You brought out the best in Jonathan. Thank you so much for sharing this beautiful conversation with us.

[BeyondDentistry]

I just heard Jonathan mention this on Paul Vanderklay’s podcast; thank you for having this conversation with Jonathan. Alex, you should definitely talk to Paul if you are able.

[Popopopopopopipopipipip]

Great conversation. Alex, I am impressed by your willingness to listen to people who think differently to you. I think this conversation is a good example of how, often, someone who we think we will strongly disagree with is actually just thinking about things in a different way than ourselves, and it turns out that not only do we agree on many things but that we actually gain a lot from adopting their different perspective. I wonder have you heard of Daniel Schmachtenberger? If not, you should look him up. He's someone who I really think you should talk to.

[canonkeith]

This was an incredible conversation. Hope there is another one somewhere down the line 😊

[danielharri]

Haha I met Alex in a spoons once in London and we chatted for about an hour almost exclusively on art and our favourite paintings. Think this is what he’s actually passionate about so glad to see him having talks on the topic. Found it interesting that his favourite painting is the prodigal son👀

[davidr]

I love the irony of having this conversation in front of the ubiquitous rectangular IKEA shelf-lamp