How To Deal With Poor Leaders - Jocko Willink

Excerpt from JOCKO PODCAST 7.
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[leukamononen]

A leader is best when people barely know he exists, when his work is done, his aim fulfilled, they will say: we did it ourselves.
--Laozi

[betsybarnicle]

1. Wait them out (they get promoted, transfer or get another job).
2. Transfer.
3. Get another job.
4. Wait and see if more coworkers or even upper management notices their unprofessional, counterproductive behavior. If enough see it, then you can together address it with upper authority.

Making them look good?... They don't care. I tried that, and was sincere when I crowed good things about my manager to her superiors. She just saw my compliments and helpful-communication as a sign of weakness. Real narc.

[nickwhitley]

Literally watching this as I’m writing a 2000 word essay cause I tried to fight a toxic sgt. You saved my life mine

[quest]

I did that with my boss for years. I would defend him when people would question him. I would reformat reports when he would do an extremely shoddy jobs so he wouldn't be embarrassed. I would do my job so well that it would cover any of his deficiencies he had and make him look like an excellent leader. I thought it would make him value my opinion and bring me in as an ally. We had big wins together but when it came down to it, he didnt care about anyone but himself. He took credit for everything and blamed everyone if things went wrong. He was so sheltered by us as a team that when things went wrong and it required him to step up, he had no clue. And if you tried to suggest a direction, he was the kind to take pleasure in shutting it down. He also had zero principles so he was not averse to bullying, humiliating, side lining and frustrating people. He would say the sky is green today and say the sky is red tomorrow. He is a duplicitous and untrustworthy leader.

[Zen-noMyo-]

Just the TOPIC I have been currently dealing with the past few weeks. I am a surgical tech assisting surgeons in the operating room. Not all, but some doctors have overly inflated egos and are prone to literally throwing temper tantrums over very minor issues when they don't get their way. As a fellow military veteran I am accustomed to expecting higher-ranking individuals to demonstrate more grit and emotional control/intelligence. Seeing these grown, "educated" men behave like bratty two-year olds has become utterly ridiculous. I've discussed some of these experiences with my brother, also a vet (Marine) and we concluded that "bosses" who are petty and childish in their attempt to come off as intimidating to their employees are actually demonstrating weakness.

[brianmatthews]

I am a retired special operations SNCO and have run into all types of people in positions of power and authority (note I did NOT say leader...just because you occupy a position of power and authority does NOT make you a you think you are a leader then you need to turn around to see if anyone is following you...if not, then you are no leader). As Jocko alluded to - the first thing you must understand is your relative position on the food chain. You have to be very aware of your position powers and authorities or lack there of....do not operate outside of your position powers and authorities. Understand that there will be times that a person above you has been promoted "to a level of incompetence"....this is to say that the person in that position of power may have no business being in the position they are....but they are and you have a mission to take care of. I ran into this in my career, mainly on the enlisted side, however, also running into officers that had been promoted in rank (typically O-5 and above) and as a result placed in positions of great responsibility, yet were clearly ill-equipt to perform at that level. This is where it gets tricky in my opion. If you are below a person that is in over their head yet you wield some degree of position power and authority...i.e you are a manager, team leader, work leader....then you have a responsibility to not only "mentor up", but also mentor your subordinates through this time of adversity. You also have a responsibility to keep things positive amongst other managers/team leads/work leads in the organization....ill feelings towards a person in power can spread quickly and be ruinous to an organization. The trick is to keep the person in power from nose diving the operation and taking you all down with him/her. As Jocko stated - this is the art of influence and the art of influence, in my opinion, is a skill acquired over time through great mentorship. However, there is also the situation where you are simply in a position that does not wield any position power or authority. This is a VERY hard place to be in as you are completely at the whim of the person in power. In this situation, you are basically in survival mode - which is to say "can I survive the tenure of this person with my career intact"? It is in this situation were one focuses on doing their specific job as well as possible and ignore everything else going on around you...be the proverbial "gray man". In this cases like this, my recommendation is to document, document, my previous life, we would frequently craft "Memorandums For Record" (dated the day written and wet signature on each document) that spelled out a situation or was a running catalog of an ongoing situation in the event that the issue came to a head. If push comes to shove you need to be able to walk into the commander/first sergeant's office and have a detailed history of what has occurred and what you have done, if anything, about the situation. It is always better to try to resolve issues at the lowest levels, but sometimes that is not possible, however, walking into leadership office (HR if civilian) with no documented specifics to start from is a kiss of death. I think what Jocko says about building a relationship is good but it is certainly dependant on the person you are dealing with...a relationship may not be possible and I have been in that exact situation. If the person is a true leader he/she will listen to the subordinates and make course adjustments based on that input...especially from the leaders and management team directly beneath them that respectfully, unemotionally and professionally tabled their concerns or feedback. However, you have people that believe they are the smartest people in the room as a function of the promotion or the position they think that the promotion is validation that they are the smartest, most capable person in the room and how would you possibly know better. It is in this situation that, in my opinion, a productive relationship is not very likely. It is in this situation where one has to simply survive the tenure of the tyrant. But, again...this is not something learned in a book....handling these issues come down to experience and in some cases, it is the bad experience that teaches the most. Good luck to anyone who is dealing with a bad boss. I dealt with a bad SNCO from 2006 - 2010 and then a bad LtCol from 2012 - 2014 ...I survived both and retired in 2014 with my reputation and honor fully in tack and I did not compromise anything...I just played the game better.

[rickr.]

This advice works until you run into a leader that leads with ego AND is incredibly insecure. That combination is deadly.

[roar]

Dealing with this with my new manager. It is tough because our previous manager (who is still here, just in the director position) was such a great leader. To contrast the previous manager to the current one is like night and day. Still adjusting. I can't stay here long term but need to stay long enough to qualify for higher level roles and I land a new job. To me that is playing the game. You don't need to stay with a terrible boss forever. Make a plan, work towards it and find it in you (despite how pissed off they may get you) to be professional. You control how you respond to situations.

[davidbradford]

When I became a commander of a signal company, one of the SFCs did this very thing with me. He made me look like a rock star! When the Full Bird would grill me, I simply answered what this E-7 stated he saw as "coming down the pipe" and his recommended solution during planning sessions with him & the 1SG. I learned more from him with regards to interpersonal skills, leadership, and running operations than any senior officer "mentor" or school house has ever taught me. He was the single biggest factor to that unit exceeding standards on multiple fronts. Solid advice sir. Please keep it coming.

[workinabroad]

I did this for a year and a half. I don't wanna play the game anymore, so I'm leaving. I'm happy to have learned what I can about what not to do. Time to go back to where leadership can teach me the right way to do things.

[murphytina]

Encountered a similar situation three years ago. The new leader refused to learn any thing or take advice. Ended up costing the company $700, 000 and he left the company. Sometimes poor leaders need to be replaced swiftly before damage is done.

[Ceecee-hndd]

I agree with indirect methods when dealing with bad bosses, but only if the timing is right e.g. if you have something good to gain. Sometimes it’s wiser to cut the losses and leave the ’bad boss playing field’. Life is too short for nonsense.

[seanking]

I work in a very similar situation to the one discussed in this video. However, I think this only applies to a boss you deem "respectable". When I started at my job we had a very intelligent boss who recognized the hard work and innovation done and made us aware of the short falls of our crew and helped correct them (even when resisted). A year later he left and was replaced by an outsider with no experience (we were not notified of the opening). The current boss has no desire/ability to learn and has gradually shifted his responsibilities down to the workers. He spends little time at work, has no transparency and only interacts with the crew when he needs favours like OT. To further the damage he has done the company he has hired friends of his and created a culture of nepotism which is making experienced workers who are actually doing the bulk of his job looking for other employment. I don't feel that following the advice laid out in this video could have resulted in a different present, the fault is that it assumes the superior is willing to learn. I think this is a case of upper management (who show the same traits of laziness) failing to correct their own mistake and not seeing the long term effects it will have.

[rhess]

Tough to do if you're dealing with a narcissist. If you ever have to engage with a narcissist, no game, no tactic and no formula will allow you to win, covert or otherwise because they're not playing the game you are. They're not on the same planet with the same rules as you.
My wife works for one. These people can't see the forest through the trees. Too tied up in what the deal is for THEM and they'll say they have your back or that you're important but not to a narcissist. There's only THEIR way or the highway. And sometimes the highway can be a valid and affirming choice.
People don't leave jobs. They leave managers.
RESPECT YOURSELF enough to realize the moment you will never win and take your skills elsewhere. Don't give up, but know when you create your Exodus.

[pattyb]

Civil engineer in a small business. Last year a senior employee who carried the company left due to frustration with the boss. 2 new employees have come and gone, and my boss and his new senior are not managing things well and have become increasingly nasty.

All the workers are extremely frustrated. Ive stopped caring and am looking for better opportunities.

I think may be watching someone destroy a company they spent their life building.

[MichaelJTimms]

A brilliant insight from Jocko - It’s your ego that prevents you from respecting others. We should all remember that when we feel we can’t respect someone else.

[kodyarocho]

I realize the error in my ways. My two biggest faults are my insecurities and my ego. You couldn’t be more right Jocko. Thank you 🙏

[infinitelystoned]

When you have value, skills and balls, you can stand toe to toe to "leaders" who are incompetent, not ass kiss

[idbountyhunter]

Robert Greene talks about this in his book, “48 laws of power”

[stevena.]

I’ve been following this advice for a couple of months now. It’s killing me, but I’m continuing forward by checking my ego. My ego wants to put him in a Rear naked choke..I’m finding that the more I do, the way less he does. Recently I had to draw the line because my boss began texting me for work related shit late at night while I’m at home. (Like 0300 hours)
I’ll stay down the path. However, I’m estimating this type of person will not vouch or support me. He’s all “smoke and mirrors” and what I’m learning. I’m learning that he’s talented at convincing people he knows more than he does. Yet, I’m continuing to follow this advice..