Religion and Gay Marriage

In which John discusses marriage equality, what a traditional marriage actually is, and what role (if any) theological understandings of marriage play in the legal definition of marriage. Let's continue this conversation in comments, but in doing so, let's remember that nerdfighteria is about respect and generosity. Thanks.

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[cattbiirrd]

"The truth is, marriages are intensely personal and they are defined not by courts or voters, but by the people who live inside of them."
Possibly one of the best commentaries on marriage I have ever heard.

[bidaubadeadieu]

Honestly, eight years later this still holds up, I feel like that's special. Really appreciated the inclusion of intersex people in this conversation.

[Waltham]

I am not against non-traditional marriages.

I am very opposed to theme weddings.

[jsayol]

"Those marriages won't affect yours". Such a simple concept that so many can't seem to understand.

[ZandoFox]

"Gay marriage is already happening. It has been happening, in fact, for as long as human beings have been pledging themselves to each other."
Hello. I'm bi, and I'm crying because that was unexpectedly beautiful.

[theotherguitargeek]

Fun fact: it is because of this video that my partner and I are now married. In the sense of we are married by pre-16th century standards as in we both decided we want to be married. So we are. Boom. Thank you Vlogbrothers for that wonderful moment in my life

[thomasvadeika]

“You can’t get married because of my religion”
=
“You can’t eat a cookie because of my diet”

[robertsummers]

WOW have things changed. It is genuinely baffling to me that both this video and Hank's video from a couple of days before were not at all received very well. Seeing the more recnet comments being more well recieved, even from other religious people, shows just how much we've progressed as a society, and it makes me happy to see that positive change.

[thomasking]

I am offensive and I find this very married.

[helensaunders]

I know this is an old video, but it just popped up on my feed, and I am commenting so that hopefully it can appear on more people's feeds. I think the world needs this.

[startagainjene]

I would like to point out a very important fact, there are the 10 commandments and there is the bible. The commandments state:
You shall have no other gods before Me.
You shall not make idols.
You shall not take the name of the LORD your God in vain.
Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy.
Honor your father and your mother.
You shall not murder.
You shall not commit adultery.
You shall not steal.
You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.
You shall not covet.

The most frequently quoted line in the bible that states anything about gay sex/marriage is by Leviticus 18:22
"You shall not lie with a man as you do a woman, it is an abomination."
However when we take a closer look we realise that the Levitical laws were rules limiting the "Ancient Jews", in the new testament Jesus Christ throws out these laws along with the laws that forbid eating pig, these laws no longer apply to the christian/catholic world. 

The 10 commandments simply state (in terms of sex), by the word of Our Father that adultery shall not be committed and one MUST be married before sexual relations arise. These were the words of the lord.

Now how many may I ask of you work on a sunday? How many of you say "Oh My God!", how many of you have not honoured your parents, how many of you have lusted after another when already committed, how many of you have stolen, how many of you have lied and how many of you have had sex before marriage.

If we are to talk about the sanctity of marriage in terms of the bible then those who have had sex before marriage and who have committed adultery should be stoned. If you are to use the bible, a book that endorses love, forgiveness and kindness, to hide behind your own personal prejudices is to not live by the word of God and by doing so are the least respectful of your religion. 

To disallow two people to get married but to go ahead and eat pork is the highest form of hypocrisy. Do not use the bible to justify your personal prejudices, God is the almighty loving being and to discriminate a group of people by using him is the severest form of sin.

[niki]

Wow, I'm really impressed with these comments. You go, internet! You didn't suck for once.

[Dan-]

I don’t get all these people who aren’t even married getting all fed up over people they will probably never meet

[skyeholloway]

Thank you so much, John, for having had these types of opinions and points to make even this long ago. Your inclusion of intersex people meant a lot to me back then, and I just *know* that if this was something you talked about today, you would also include gender identity in your recognition of the absurdity of denying people rights. Thank you and Hank for decreasing worldsuck for so long. DFTBA <3

[DozyBinsh]

"Oh yeah, that one recent North Carolina law that's hugely upsetting."

Video from 2012, yet still topical.
ಠ_ಠ

[ClanWiE]

You know, if I had watched this 10 years ago when it was uploaded, it could have made me stop watching the Greens, which would have been a sore loss for me. I've done a lot of growing up since then and I'm glad to say I'm a better person than I was and I owe at least part of that to watching these two brother talk on the internet.

[kevinsharadin]

I just want to marry my japanese boyfriend so that we can have the same RIGHTS as everyone else. If a black man can marry a white woman, a white man marry more than one woman (Utah...), and straight people marry and divorce, then why not just let me marry to a man. It makes more sense than most.

[Lasolimu]

Today the SCOTUS ruled for marriage equality. Most of the anger I see about this decision is the same rhetoric that "God made marriage between one man and one woman." So yes, even 3 years later, this video is still relevant. It will probably remain relevant for many years to come.

Whenever I have a friend pull out the religion thing, this is my go to video because it explains the situation more calmly, better thought out, and more rational than I could ever do myself because it has been an issue which affected me directly.

Thank you John Green.

[erinrising]

I support gay marriage, because I support any opportunity to have cake

[jg]

I am a conservative christian.  I believe in the literal interpretation of the Bible, not taken out of context, but the new and old testaments taken as a whole.  Whenever I make choices in my life, great or small, the Bible is the principle thing that informs my choices.  I believe sexual relations outside of the parameters described in the Bible, ARE in rebellion to God's will, my definition of sin.  BUT...these are my beliefs, my choices.  The laws of this country do not exist to force others to conform to  my beliefs.  The laws of this country exist to protect people and property.  No one needs protection from consenting adults in the privacy of their own home.  

All of us need protection to pursue the mandates of our conscience, so long as we ourselves are not harming other people or their property in that pursuit.  As much as I believe that homosexual relationships defy God's will, I also believe so called anti-homosexual marriage laws violate freedom of religion.  Ultimately, people marry based on their own specific set of morals, beliefs and ethics, and while some are uncomfortable calling this their religion, I believe they are in the same family and should be protected in the same manner.

Examples of sexual practices that should be prohibited by law:  pedophilia, bestiality, rape, any form of prostitution that is exploitive.  Why these and not gay marriage?  Simple.  The law is to protect people and property.  Homosexual adults are consenting and of an age to consent.  The other sexual practices I listed harm someone who does not consent, who is vulnerable and needs the protection of the law.

Examples of sexual practices that violate my personal beliefs about God's law, but that should NOT be prohibited by law: adultery, sex outside marriage, homosexual sex, prostitution where the prostitute is not being exploited or coerced, but is in charge of the transaction.  (The assumption being with all of these that all parties are consenting adults.)  Why?  There is neither property or a person that needs to be protected by the law.  ( On a side note, bigamy, where all are adults that consent, should be lawful. I think it's impractical, and I can think of a few notable examples in the Bible where it made for some pretty toxic family dynamics, but I digress...)

We need to realize in this country that while we do have a right to our constitutionally-protected freedoms, we do not have a right to be un-offended.  The law does not exist to make you feel like everyone agrees with you and prevent another person's viewpoint from hurting your feelings.  I write this to Christians, Atheists, Homosexuals, Heterosexual, whatever...

"Tolerance" is not demanding that everyone conforms to your version of rightness, AND DEMONIZING THEM WHEN THEY DON'T.  Tolerance is respecting the rights of all people in this country to have their own life and own opinion, so long as they are not physically hurting someone (I'm sorry, words definitely hurt but it is impractical in most cases to legislate hurt feelings), or destroying others property.  And remember that generally offensive opinions are a TWO-WAY street.  Usually if someone's opinion or choices offend YOU, YOUR opposite opinion or choices are equally offensive to THEM.  We need to celebrate that we have the privilege of being an diverse country because that means our own person is provided for, and bear patiently the inescapable side effect of a generally free society: hurt feelings when others think we are wrong-- being respectful to each other anyway!  (And prosecuting the crap out of someone when they are not good stewards of those freedoms--whether it's firing a gun into a church or beating a LGBT person, or any person!!!)