Defining Pelagianism and Semipelagianism (A Further Response to Leighton Flowers)

This is a continued response to Dr. Leighton Flowers on Provisionism, Pelagianism, and Semipelagianism.

[redeemedzoomer]

Jay Dyer also expressed an EXPLICITLY semi-pelagian view to me. He said we are born without original sin and have a free-will choice to sin or not sin every time we have an opportunity to sin. I asked "does this mean one could never sin" and all he could say is "no eventually everyone's gonna sin"

[TronJC]

Ken Wilson/Leighton Flowers camp: look at how novel Augustine’s views are in 400s, except from Gnostics etc.

Also Ken Wilson/Leighton Flowers crowd: hold novel views of own from 1500s onwards in rejecting baptismal regeneration, church is Israel of God, etc. except from Gnostics and the like.

[pateunuchity]

‪Pelagius was urbane, courteous, convincing, and liked by everyone. Augustine squandered away his youth in immorality, had a strange relationship with his mother, and made many enemies. Yet Augustine started from God’s grace and got it right, whereas Pelagius started from human effort and got it wrong.‬
‪Philip Yancey “What’s So Amazing about Grace”‬

[nursingninja]

Thanks for taking this on. Glad to see a Lutheran doctor entering public debate like this. We typically don't get representation in these things.

[RGrantJones]

My first exposure to Christianity was in a non-instrumental, multi-cup Church of Christ. What I hear of Flowers' soteriological position reminds me of what I heard there, at least in relation to the beginning of faith. I wonder if there will be a convergence between those two groups of anti-Augustinian baptists. Thank you for making these videos. I appreciate your irenic manner.

[reformedcatholic]

It's sadly true that quite a few of them are Pelagian, I had a chat to one who quoted Ecc 7:29 that men are made upright some even admit openly that they're Pelagian these people don't care about Church history nor the councils, but just simply claim to be faithful to the text of Sctipture, so no wonder their group is full of heresy. They act like the cults of 1800's they rejected the creeds and councils claimed to be biblical, guess what happened? They rejected the Trinity, they were basically were Arians, even possible Pelagians, as Charles Finney was a Pelagian. Provisionism has no historical support except for semipelagianism, it's new soteriologically with somewhat old heresy repackaged, that's what you get when you're ignorant of Church history, you become a heretic.

It would wise to read the definition of semipelagianism at the council of Orange 529 AD and change the view of ones soteriology.

[walker_estes]

You are correct at 29:30, Dr. Cooper. Dr. Flowers characteristically does not speak of sin as a condition. He speaks only of Man's ability, not his condition. And I find it interesting that you would realize this deep-seated aspect of "Provisionism" after simply watching his videos while sick in bed. You must have watched quite a few. :) Either that, or he makes it more obvious than even I thought.

[billyr]

I came to see if you saw the same simi palagian theology of Flowers that I saw.
And I noticed that you saw it too.

But the reason I stayed was for the wonderful history that you taught. Thanks!

[MohaveAviator]

Dr. Flowers always alleges ad hominem attacks and missrpresentation. You will never deal with his position fairly, according to Dr. Flowers. This is standard par for the course. Sorry, Flowers is just an inept theologian

[IAmisMaster]

32:00 I totally agree that this is an issue that many provisionists fall in. I am an Arminian so I don’t believe one is born with a libertarian free will to not sin. However, God draws you and gives you grace, and from then your will is, in a sense, able to chose right over sin. The Bible itself says that God provides a path to avoid sin, obviously referring to those already saved and this path is living by the power of the Holy Spirit.

[stevestolarczyk]

I love how Dr. Cooper keeps recommending these books as if the rest of us could just wade through them in our spare time-- or maybe while we're sick in bed.

[r.lizarraga]

If you're looking for the Orthodox perspective on free will and synergy, I highly recommend reading "The Place of Blessed Augustine in the Orthodox Church" by Fr. Seraphim Rose. It is a short book that explores the controversies between St. Augustine thought and St. Cassian through the centuries. I cannot recommend this book enough! Very concise and informative. Great video btw.

[tomtemple]

calvinists/reformed guys 🤝 confessional lutherans

[AaronMiller-rhrj]

Dr. Cooper, Appreciate your knowledge, information and you.

[WittenbergProject]

Hey! Welcome to the program people. Grab a shirt and some coffee, and hear Dr Cooper break this down!

[eulerspupil]

Hello, Dr. Cooper, could you do a video exegeting biblical verses that shows there is a differentiation between original sin and actual sin? Also, as an aside, what are your thoughts on Abraham Calov? I was surprised to learn that he wrote a 12 volume systematic Lutheran theology.

[scottcarter]

The more time goes by, the more appreciation accumulates for you, Dr. Cooper.
Perhaps your most engaging quality is a latent humility (Regardless of the online anti-reformed "emotive swirling”... John Piper is another such person.)
Dr. Flowers vacillates back and forth - though one wanted to give him the benefit of the doubt early on.
He is certainly not going to be the one who dispels Calvinism.
He is a product of "Baptist hubris" that is prominent in American Evangelicalism... and particularly in Dr. Flowers' constituency, there's a distinct "Hoot & Holler" essence (I know of no other colloquialistic description) that keeps pulling him further into his commitment. I am all for the "average guy" relatability... but the issue is in accumulating an opportunistic benefit at the expense of that banner... while simultaneously sustaining or even further concealing the ignorance of the very constituency that is to Dr. Flowers' benefit. (Whether this is intentional or not, it's an unfortunate accident at best)
From the sloppy soteriological extrapolation and clumsy recklessness of ill-prepared soil, I'm often embarrassed to claim to be a Baptist, but... "Here I stand, I can do no other"

God bless you Dr. Cooper...
—Soli Deo Gloria!

[TheDroc]

This is a great video, Dr. Cooper. Learned a good bit!

[Parks-h]

Why is Pelagianism/semi-pelagianism so stubborn to rear its head throughout church history? Because the original sin is offensive to prideful men! If we cannot accept our plight, we will not see Christ as savior.

[TKaramali]

How do you write the person’s name you mention at 49:48 (thomas godshock or something like thar ??)