The 4-Square: Don't Get !@#$%& When You're Buying a Car (Former Dealer Explains)

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Do you know what a Four Square is? No, not the school gym game! The four square is a sales tactic used by a lot of...less than scrupulous salespeople for decades. Ray, a 43-year car dealership veteran, breaks down this tactic, why it "works," and how you can protect your deal from its clutches.

[JCreole]

You should of seen the look on the salesman face when I took out my pen and crossed everything out and wrote O.T.D. 😂😂😂

[backcountyrpilot]

A RAM dealer pulled out the 4-square form on me a few years ago. I said, “I’m not a 19 year old G.I. anymore. All I need to know is the OTD price”.

[markwhitton]

When I hear that BS at the beginning from a car salesman, I get real suspicious and usually walk out shortly after. I was a salesman most of my life, and hate liars, so refuse to do business with them

[distructzero]

I looked at the top Kia sorento x Prestige.. Sticker was like 41, 500
They hand write different months / years payment with $5000 down .
When pressed they finally show the OTD price with tax, lic /title, doc fees and.. Umm dealer add ons I was not allowed to decline, was almost 48K.
I was stunned and speechless for moment. When they pulled out the 4 square game, we left and never went back.

[NGMonocrom]

Oh! I know about this. Old School indeed, but unfortunately it works extremely well on the majority of car buyers. Main thing is, any car salesman who uses it; take the sheet of paper, tear it up, and walk out! The salesman might as well turn on a giant neon sign behind him that says _"I'm going to cheat you, now."_

[kennethainley]

Well done. Everyone who’s planning on buying a car should watch this video several times before visiting a dealer. Wish I’d seen this 3 yrs. ago. Thanks, again.

[apt]

I've seen this scheme several times over the years. About 25 years ago I read a book about buying below invoice as I was getting ready to purchase my first new vehicle and this 4-square scam was mentioned. Ever since then I've been prepared to counter it.

[jennifert]

Last time a 4 square sheet was dragged out, I said "May I?" took the paper and pen crossed out every square except for vehicle price and calmly explained the minute anything is written in the crossed out squares is the minute I walk. The biggest car shopping trick I've learned is the car dealership's worst customer is someone who is A) educated and B) willing to walk at a moments notice. I tell people to always remember that you're the CEO of your personal finances as such you have a financial responsibility to look out for your bottom line, the dealerships ability to turn a profit is of zero concern to you. Profitability is their problem and if they can't meet you on a reasonable well researched OTD offer, you walk. Period.

[jp]

THIS. The most valuable information we need for visiting a dealership. I am saving this and rewatching when I start shopping next year.

[RudyF]

After retirement as a dealership parts manager I went into sales at a family owned power sports dealership for 2 years. I was top salesman for the 2 years I was there.
The place got sold to a corporate entity, some of us stayed. When the new manager (who'd been sucking air for several years less than I'd been working) introduced and started training us with a 4-square, I literally laughed out loud, stood up and cleaned out my desk.

[musicloverme]

I always bought new, even my first car as a teenager. Never again, prices just too crazy. But watching this today reminds me of the last time that I bought new. We got to a final price (OTD), & then I asked about the trade for my current car. They tried to tell me that it was already included! I said it can't be as it was NEVER even discussed. They just wanted my trade for FREE! As Ray said, it is a separate transaction. However, when agreed, it can then be combined with the new purchase. I would've walked if they continued to insist on my trade for FREE. Of course, they never said that they wanted my trade for free, but that was the actual effect of what they were trying to do! They came around & we completed all transactions.

[sonnyzaro]

This is all great. What helps is, looking at a car that's been on the lot way to long. Buying at the end of the month & negotiating dealer add ons & Doc fee.

[scottr]

Over the past two decades I have purchased or assisted someone to purchase 20 vehicles. None of those purchases included a sales presentation of the 4-Square sheet. The last time I recall a sales person using a 4-Square sheet was back in the 1990s. Of course, as this video suggests, the 4-Square sales processes are an integral part of the offers concocted by the sales manager regardless of it being shown to the customer..

The smart car buyer understands these processes and incorporates them into their purchase goals. Firstly, that customer researches their fair price on the vehicle, what they believe they should pay. Secondly, that customer researches the fair trade value, the value they believe they should receive for their trade. With these two amounts that customer computes the net amount they should pay. Thirdly, that customer researches the interest rate they should get.

If, for example, they believe the fair price is $30, 000 and the fair trade value is $10, 000, the net is $20, 000. That $20, 000 would be the amount they should concentrate on achieving. This will preclude any math games the sales person attempts. In addition, the customer will use that net along with their fair interest rate to compute the monthly payment or payments depending on loan period.

In every sale, the dealer sales team attempts to determine the customer's hot button which might be price, or trade, or monthly payment. The dealer will lower the price if the hot button is price and also lower the trade value. Or the dealer will raise the trade value but also raise the price. Or the dealer might try to present the monthly payment while hiding the details.

All of these dealer tricks can easily be avoided if the customer does their home work.

Also any dealer fee which is taxed is a FAKE fee and is just part of the price. Do not consider those fees separate from the price, Do adjust your fair price to compensate for any FAKE dealer fee.

Finally, always maintain control of the negotiation. Do not allow the dealer to assume control. Play along with their games if you want but always stay in control. Always move the negotiation toward your goals. Remember, you can just walk away and find another dealer.

[jdmsurfer]

As a former car salesman, always separate the squares. When the dealer starts playing games start making their convoluted mess even more messy and cross their stuff out and write in yours. Find your payment using a calculator and like he said don't worry about the dealer screwing with you.

[scottwarner]

That was clearly explained. I didn't really learn anything new, but it does confirm everything I've been told in the past.

[whiplash]

Sadly, not everyone looking to buy a new car has this knowledge nor have the watched this video. Good job Ray!

[bartekwshwsh]

New 2023 Jeep Grand Cherokee L -6584$ below MSRP. Let the party started. North Richland hills TX.

[dezmod]

My Ram dealer calls me up, guaranteed me a lower payment, by the time my new payment was added up I was offered 3 times my current payment and basically gave them my current ram for free, so I got up and left. And they acted offended, they didn't stop till I said, "DUDE! ARE YOU SMOKING CRACK!"

[WVUTEAM]

Thank you, sir, you're doing a great thing. I've been a victim of all these on two new car purchases. But for the last 10 years, I have been driving my old faithful suv my dad owned. But I will study these videos before my next purchase.

[adriesp]

Omg I always focus on the payment, and my last deal was a complete messed, because I needed the car so much. And every time I make the payment I cry. Thank you so much!!