Fallacies in Proving God Exists | Episode 901 | Closer To Truth

The more I want God to exist, the more I must question proofs of God's existence. "Bad arguments for God" scare me. Maybe all the "God Arguments" are bad? I hope not. Featuring interviews with Peter Atkins, Victor Stenger, Michael Tooley, Walter Sinnott-Armstrong, and Denis Alexander.

Season 9, Episode 1 - #CloserToTruth

Closer To Truth host Robert Lawrence Kuhn takes viewers on an intriguing global journey into cutting-edge labs, magnificent libraries, hidden gardens, and revered sanctuaries in order to discover state-of-the-art ideas and make them real and relevant.

Closer to Truth presents the world’s greatest thinkers exploring humanity’s deepest questions. Discover fundamental issues of existence. Engage new and diverse ways of thinking. Appreciate intense debates. Share your own opinions. Seek your own answers.

#Religion #Atheism

[smoozerish]

People are terrified of dying. That's it in a nutshell.

[kirillnovik]

I like how much sense of dignity and respect Robert L. Kuhn is treating this subject and his opponents with

[followyourbliss]

If a God of Love does exist, the burden should not be on us to find him.

[maxnullifidian]

Those things we want to believe are the things we should be the most skeptical of.

[aaronmatzkin]

Dennis Alexander understands that the argument from ignorance and god of the gaps is fallacious, and specifically sought to make the point that it shouldn't be used in examples such as the origin of life, or in human consciousness. He then goes right ahead and makes the argument from ignorance and god of the gaps regarding "creation".
Amazing!

[jeancorriveau]

Most "proofs" of God I have studied assume that God exists in the first place! On top of fallacious arguments lies the error of assigning human qualities and experiences to God.

[mosesexodus]

​Modern Quantum Physics has shown that reality is based on probability:
​
A statistical impossibility is defined as “a probability that is so low as to not be worthy of mentioning. Sometimes it is quoted as 1/10^50 although the cutoff is inherently arbitrary. Although not truly impossible the probability is low enough so as to not bear mention in a Rational, Reasonable argument." The probability of finding one particular atom out of all of the atoms in the universe has been estimated to be 1/10^80. The probability of just one (1) functional 150 amino acid protein chain forming by chance is 1/10^164. It has been calculated that the probability of DNA forming by chance is 1/10^119, 000. The probability of random chance protein-protein linkages in a cell is 1/10^79, 000, 000, 000. Based on just these three cellular components, it would be far more Rational and Reasonable to conclude that the cell was not formed by un-directed random natural processes. Note: Abiogenesis Hypothesis posits that un-directed random natural processes, i.e. random chance formation, of molecules led to living organisms. Natural selection has no effect on individual atoms and molecules on the micro scale in a prebiotic environment. (*For reference, peptides/proteins can vary in size from 3 amino acid chains to 34, 000 amino acid chains. Some scientists consider 300-400 amino acid protein chains to be the average size. There are 42, 000, 000 protein molecules in just one (1) simple cell, each protein requiring precise assembly. There are approx. 30, 000, 000, 000, 000 cells in the human body.)

Of all the physical laws and constants, just the Cosmological Constant alone is tuned to a level of 1/10^120; not to mention the fine-tuning of the Mass-Energy distribution of early universe which is 1/10^10^123. Therefore, in the fine-tuning argument, it would be more Rational and Reasonable to conclude that the multi-verse is not the correct answer. On the other hand, it has been scientifically proven numerous times that Consciousness does indeed collapse the wave function to cause information waves of probability/potentiality to become particle/matter with 1/1 probability. A rational and reasonable person could therefore conclude that the answer is consciousness.

A "Miracle" is considered to be an event with a probability of occurrence of 1/10^6. Abiogenesis, RNA World Hypothesis, and Multiverse would all far, far, far exceed any "Miracle". Yet, these extremely irrational and unreasonable hypotheses are what some of the world’s top scientists ‘must’ believe in because of a prior commitment to a strictly arbitrary, subjective, biased, narrow, limiting, materialistic ideology / worldview.

Every idea, number, concept, thought, theory, mathematical equation, abstraction, qualia, etc. existing within and expressed by anyone is "Immaterial" or "Non-material". The very idea or concept of "Materialism" is an immaterial entity and by it's own definition does not exist. Modern science seems to be stuck in archaic, subjective, biased, incomplete ideologies that have inadequately attempted to define the "nature of reality" or the "reality of nature" for millennia. A Paradigm Shift in ‘Science’ is needed for humanity to advance. A major part of this Science Paradigm Shift would be the formal acknowledgment by the scientific community of the existence of "Immaterial" or "Non-material" entities as verified and confirmed by observation of the universe and discoveries in Quantum Physics.)

[anjonndasgupta]

Every episode is beautifully crafted with skills of curator in Kuhn. Brilliant

[ryandinan]

His ending statement pretty much sums up my thoughts and feelings about god too.

[cmdrf.ravelli]

He nailed it when he said that in order to find god you have to stop thinking

[cggambill]

The best treatment of this subject I've seen. "Closer to the Truth"!

[Bamsefar]

An agnostic theist. That's pretty rare these days.
As an atheist I really enjoyed this video. By the end the host basically says, and I'm paraphrasing "My belief is wishful thinking, and the burden of proof is not only on those who claim to believe, but on god himself".
That is more than I could ever wish for religious people to admit. I don't need the whole world to be atheist, but it would be nice if everyone had this level of sanity.

[frankwhelan]

''Deciding on the conclusion first and constructing the arguments later''

[jesssantiago]

God needs to prove his existence to people. If there is a God that is all powerful and all knowing, this God should be capable of revealing himself to humans and proving that he is God.

[cvdb]

I like this video series for addressing this big topic in a way that invites people from all perceptions to join in. The more I listen to people with any sort of supernatural belief, the more I am convinced there is no such thing. I was raised with Christianity and would encourage anyone who consider themselves religious to ask themselves some key questions:
- What drove you to have the religion / belief that you have? The most likely answer is it is passed on by your family and social surroundings, or you have picked it up from a charismatic person that you trust and who made an impact at a vulnerable moment in your life. This does not make it true.
- What would happen if you would leave the religion / belief that you have? In many cases, an honest answer is it would result in some sort of fear. Fear for being rejected by your family and social surroundings (even threatening and death...), fear to be punished and to go to hell, fear to handle life without religion, fear of emptiness, or other types of fear.
- Do you want to hold on to an illusion that is supported by people who are taught to believe purely in feelings, not to question anything, and to reverse-reason any counterpoints only to stay with the same belief system? Or do you want to know how things really are, i.e. the truth about our world and universe? Can you live with the fact that not everything about our world and universe is yet known? Or are you so desperate to "know the full truth now" that you will believe in fallacies that suit you well, just so you have the illusion you know the truth?

One of the biggest pitfalls communicated in most religions is the notion that "doubt = weakness" and that you should be "strong in your faith", in other words just believe whatever you have been told and do not question it. Don't accept that. Doubt is healthy and good. It stimulates your brain to think critically and to question what you think you know by checking against facts and new learnings.

Life without religion is possible and better, with high moral standards, wonder and admiration for the universe we live in and respect for all people! We are all in this together, let's stop building religious tribes.

[cvdb]

One of the main reasons that many people believe in a God is that it gives them a sense of direction and purpose in life and it provides hope for a wonderful afterlife. However, what people do not realize is that their personal needs and hopes become their "personal truths". People believe something out of personal need and hope, not because it is true...

[hughbarton]

Walter perfectly describes in one sentence the basic problem with theist arguments: they presuppose from a desired conclusion. This is not how science works, due to issues with confirmation bias, a well documented phenomenon.
You can always find something that supports your argument, if proof is what you seek to present.
But that doesn't make it actually true.
This would suggest, for example, that Newton's Apple had some reason, other than gravity, for falling. Countless alternative causes could be postulated, but we know to a reasonable level of certainty that it was gravity. Just gravity.
I can certainly understand an innate desire in humans to believe in some higher power, having recently undergone some serious health problems myself: Well, the doctors can't fix me...I wish there was some power that could. But that was merely wishful thinking. I might get better, but this in no way proves the existince of some superior being; it certainly only proves the imperfection of our own knowledge.

[hypegamergig]

Besides amazing content, I must absolutely admit adorable english he speaks. English is not my language but he sounds so clearly that I catch every single word. Maybe for those who are native english speakers it is not so obvious but the way he speaks is admirable 👍 Thank you!

[donatasd]

it seems to me that when someone starts do believe in a god, it happens because of some kind of emotional or psychological reasons.

[tashriquekarriem]

If God did start it all, it still doesn't undermind him by asking how he did it