The Roots of Attention: A Conversation with Amishi Jha (Episode #380)

Sam Harris speaks with Amishi Jha about attention and the brain. They discuss how attention is studied, the failure of brain-training games, the relationship between attention and awareness, mindfulness as an intrinsic mental capacity, the neurological implications of different types of meditation, the neural correlates of attention and distraction, the prospects of self-transcendence, the link between thought and emotion, the difference between dualistic and nondualistic mindfulness, studying nondual awareness in the lab, the influence of smartphones, the value of mind wandering, and other topics.

Dr. Amishi Jha, PhD, is a professor of psychology at the University of Miami. She serves as the Director of Contemplative Neuroscience for the Mindfulness Research and Practice Initiative, which she cofounded in 2010. She received her PhD from the University of California, Davis, and did postdoctoral training at the Brain Imaging and Analysis Center at Duke University. Her work has been featured at NATO, the World Economic Forum, and the Pentagon, and she’s been covered in The New York Times, NPR, Time magazine, and Forbes. With grants from the Department of Defense and several private foundations, she leads research on the neural bases of attention and the effects of mindfulness-based training programs on cognition, emotion, resilience, and performance. Dr. Jha’s national bestseller, Peak Mind, describes her work with a variety of high-demand groups, from special forces, elite athletes, and first responders, to teachers, business and medical professionals, and students. Her forthcoming app, Pushups for the Mind, will be available to U.S. military service members in the fall of 2024, and for public release in early 2025.

Twitter: @amishijha

August 23, 2024

[AaronOysterPT]

While listening to this interview about attention, I have been sitting here with my eyes closed paying close attention. Rather than focusing so much on the words that were spoken, in my mind's eye I created a scene, imagining watching the interview. It really helped me to cling onto every word, but one thing I noticed was sometimes they would say something, and it would carry my mind away. For example when Dr. Jha mentions the juggling analogy, my mind was briefly carried away thinking about juggling.

When I managed to catch myself doing this I would come back to the scene created in my head. It has been a trip, great interview. Also reeling enjoying the Waking Up app.

[activelife]

This was so well explained. It was just explained to me the way I would understand. A lot of religious stuff gets confusing and I get lost. This was put in a way that I understand. Thanks to Amishi.

[mnag]

It’s incredible that we as a society don’t really know what’s really important
Sam’s conversations with political figures, pod casters and current events get mass attention thousands of comments and conversations like this that should be #1 because the mind is what drives us gets very little attention
We will get there someday!

[dagnabbitwabbit]

25:49 to 27:37 is a beautiful metaphor and helps me understand the goal of mindfulness.

[NicholasWilliams-ym]

(Do not castrate your brain just because one process is limited) I think it has less to do with limiting reactivity, and more about increasing the sense of importance of what you are witnessing. If you shut down the feedback loop of witnessing and reaction, you actually castrate a tool of engagement, rather than optimize. Don't remove things, add things to the direction of focus (admiring the micro objects in the direction of focus, rather than castrating reactivity). Castrating expression and reaction is a miss-appropriation of optimization, rather admire the details about the object of focus. Don't shut down processes (unless what you are focusing on is nonsense), rather increase admiration for the details of the object of focus. Because ultimately, if what you are witnessing isn't important to you, that is the real factor limiting focus (of course, if that's what you want to train yourself to focus one, sometimes it may not be, it may be getting in the way of something new and more important [avoiding the beaten path]). It's important to note, (reactivity) is good, engagement with the environment is a feedback process, just witnessing is okay, but you need both processes. (amplify witnessing [get the data], amplify reactivity [form a algorithm for dealing with the data]). It's just undeniable for rational minds that this is the right answer, full stop end of story. The thing destroying attention is (social media influencers amplifying for reactions while decreasing attention, which reaction is good, but attention destruction isn't, both processes need to be in a feedback loop, however censorship and data harvesting to psychologically drive anger and wars for ad revenue). Don't destroy more processes of the mind, rather increase the processes that are decreasing (attention + reaction = better brain health). For the social media influencers stealing personal data and waging psychological warfare, it's best for the state to monitor those individuals and how they run their social media campaigns in order to protect the society.

[applescause]

You should totally release the second half of the interview with Destiny, it was just getting good.

[centercannothold]

Concepts talked about here such as purposeful attention, pointing an internal flashlight, agency, executive control, focusing, redirecting - refer to observable instances of volition.
Subsequently calling free will an illusion makes no more sense than conceptualizing doubt without the prior concept of certainty. In both cases you end up as a self-contradicting sceptic.

[Saganist]

i got a booster because of this podcast (and grateful for it)

[Joost-qoim]

Ohh Sam is publishing another book soon, he is suddenly on every podcast again haha. I will buy it for sure

[shaktizoom]

Sam pls interview Swami Sarvapriyananda from the Vedanta Society of New York! His talks are amazing and you will get an amazing perspective on non-duality and consciousness and neuroscience

[Claythargic]

I am a driving instructor, the extent that our unruly attention creates issues with driving is statistically significant. 3 flavors of target fixation (might be more) are all related to SQUIRREL!!! this.

[birdie]

RIGHT WHEN IT AFFECTS PROFESSIONAL CAREER AND PHYSICAL HEALTH

[edgreen]

If you look at i.q. you learn sustained attention = concentration. I will be interested in what structures in the brain she mentions. Their are many cognitive biases people have thus frontal lobe is needed to say is this true or relevant. Goal related dopaminergic system + frontal lobe. I hope she goes deeper into structures medial prefrontal lobe. Some people have confusion about what is external and what is internal. It creates a feeling of anxiety in these people -many biases occur. Mental phenomenon are not positive or negative (feelings don't have to be acted on). Feeling occur but they are not fact- that is a bias erroneous approach. Thought and feelings can be observed without action. Just like visual things are not always acted on . Just observed and not judged ( especially in insular cortex dysfunction). In that situation judgment will occur and a lack of empathy for oneself or others will occur.

[bluevayero]

Sam is pretty good at this neuroscience thing

[cesarvidal]

Cant wait for the destiny chat!!!?!?!?!!

[antirealist]

This woman sounds like she has an absolute unit for a brain

[VesperAegis]

Would love to see these conversations recorded on camera in studio.

[Dr.EgonCholakian]

Who else is waiting or the Destiny episode to come out??

[paultyrrell]

Usually really like Sam Harris podcasts but this felt like a Sam Harris monologue. It would have been nice for it to be more conversational

[Pasdpawn]

Mindfulness existed in indian subcontinent way before buddha reintroduced it.