Depression and anxiety: How inequality is driving the mental health crisis | Johann Hari

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Expressions like "feeling down" or "feeling low" are more literal than we think, says Lost Connections author Johann Hari. A 30-year field study of wild African baboons by the incredible Stanford University professor Robert Sapolsky has shown that there is a remarkable relationship between depression, anxiety, and social hierarchies. Male baboons—who live in a very strict pecking order—suffer the most psychological stress when their social status is insecure, or when they are on the bottom rung, looking up at the luxuries of others. Does it sound familiar yet? "If you live in the United States... we’re at the greatest levels of inequality since the 1920s," says Hari. "There’s a few people at the very top, there’s a kind of precarious middle, and there’s a huge and swelling bottom." It's no coincidence that mental health gets poorer as the wealth gap continues to widen: depression and anxiety are socioeconomic diseases. The silver lining is that this relationship has been discovered. Could an economic revolution end the depression epidemic? And, most curiously, what can we learn from the Amish on this front? Johann Hari is the author of Lost Connections: Uncovering the Real Causes of Depression – and the Unexpected Solutions.

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JOHANN HARI

Johann Hari is the New York Times bestselling author of Chasing the Scream, which is being adapted into a feature film. He was twice named Newspaper Journalist of the Year by Amnesty International UK. He has written for many of the world’s leading newspapers and magazines, including the New York Times, Le Monde, the Guardian, the Los Angeles Times, the New Republic, the Nation, Slate, El Mundo, and the Sydney Morning Herald. He was a lead op-ed columnist for the Independent, one of Britain’s leading newspapers, for nine years. He is a regular panelist on HBO's Real Time with Bill Maher. His TED talk, “Everything You Think You Know About Addiction Is Wrong,” has more than 20 million views.
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TRANSCRIPT:

Johann Hari: When I feel depressed, like loads of people I say, “I feel down,” right?


And as I was learning about the causes of depression and anxiety for my book 'Lost Connections' I started to realize—I don’t think that’s a metaphor. There’s this amazing professor at Stanford called Robert Sapolsky who, in his early twenties, went to live with a troop of baboons in Kenya. And it was his job to figure out: when are baboons most stressed out?


So his job was to hit them with little tranquilizer darts and then take a blood test and measure something called cortisol, which is a hormone that baboons and us release when we’re stressed. And baboons live in this hierarchy—so the females don’t, interestingly—but the men live in a very strict hierarchy. So if there’s 30 men, number one knows he’s above number two. Number two knows he’s above number three. Number 12 knows he’s above number 13. And that really determines a lot; it determines who you get to have sex with, it determines what you get to eat, it determines whether you get to sit in the shade or you’re pushed out into the heat. So really it's significant where you are in the hierarchy.


And what Professor Sapolsky found is that baboons are most stressed in two situations. One is when their status is insecure. So if you’re the top guy and someone’s circling which comes for you, you will be massively stressed.


And the other situation is when you feel you’re at the bottom of the hierarchy, you’ve been kind of humiliated. And what Professor Sapolsky noticed—and then it was later developed by other scientists—is, when you feel you’ve been pushed to the bottom, what you do is you show something called a submission gesture.


So you, baboons will raise— I say “you,” I assume no baboons are watching this, maybe they are—a baboon will put its body down physically or put it’s head down or put its bottom in the air and it will cover its head. So it’s clearly seems to be communicating: “Just leave me alone. You’ve beaten me, okay? You’ve beaten me.”


And what lots of scientists, like Professor Paul Gilbert in Britain and Professor Kate Pickett and Professor Richard Wilkinson, also in Britain, have really developed is this idea that actually what human depression is, in part—not entirely, but in part—is a form of a submission gesture. It’s a way of saying, “I can’t cope with this anymore,” right. Particularly people who feel th...

[carlillingworth]

Makes sense. You can be depressed from feeling like a failure and you feel everyone is better than you. On the flip side, you reach a point where you feel too complacent and don't know how to progress. In either case you feel trapped and hopeless as if you've hit a wall. Which is essentially what depression is.

[NoahNobody]

This guy is giving me the best insights into depression I have received. Keep 'em coming.

[franciscogomes]

Just a factor. South Korea, Belgium, Finland, Switzerland have one of the highest rate of suicide in the world whilst Philippine, Azerbaijan and Egypt have very low rates. Depression is multifactorial, genetics, diet, life expectation, social engagement all play a role.

[bkw]

Yes, being poor can be very depressing, especially how the internet allows us to know things about others we wouldn't know otherwise—the comparisons increase and we can feel more inadequate.

One of the worst feelings is to know you "aren't where you're supposed to be" compared to most. This is when you detach from those sources and put your focus elsewhere or you'll get sad.

[AkiraSpectrum]

Every video from this Johann Hari has been clear and well-articulated. I very much appreciate that he isn't trying to sell some simple answer to the problems he is discussing, nor does he reduce all the contributors of depression and anxiety to one sole factor. I look forward to further videos (assuming you have more content with him).

[ShawnRavenfire]

Yes! This! A lot of my "depressed" mannerisms seem to kick in when I'm thinking about my subordinate positon in this Kafkaesque environment.

[jbcgym]

"The opposite of addiction is connection" Johann's TED Talk changed my life. I'm so grateful.

[mayuri]

Not only the economic inequality but all kinds of inequalities affects the mental health. Most important is inequality should not be misunderstood with variations. Depressed people have problem with inequality not with variations.

[Frank-ozbe]

Explains soooo much about grade school, high school and college

[Piegoose]

I came to this conclusion too personally from examining my depression. From early on we're all pushed to a certain level that we naturally maintain submissivly. If that weren't the case, im sure we'd still see a lot more conflict post-grade school

[doctorsleep]

lot of depression videos coming out these days

[TIOLIOfficial]

Yes, people, this is just one way someone can fall into depression. It doesn't mean this is the ONLY way for people to get depressed. You can lose a loved one and fall into a deep depression, as well.

[yesn]

I'm from the Philippines, now in the UK. Third world to First world. One obvious observation I have is that back where I came from, people are just struggling to survive,
I was 18 when I lost my father, he was a surgeon sole provider. You can imagine how life just turned upside down. I just had to man up, figure things out myself so I can support my housewife mom so we could feed my 3 young brothers. I just didn't have time to say "I'm depressed", or else we're gonna die.

Now here in the UK, the system provides all your basic needs, healthcare is free so you have all the time and freedom to focus on your loneliness and all. Where I came from you just won't dare go to the doctor / psychiatrist cause each check will cost you a day's worth of food.

[Mockingbird]

Sadly, curing depression and anxiety is against business interests of pharmaceutical corporations and an army of MDs who will be out of a job. Not to mention that it actually requires tackling the inequality. Never gonna happen.

[ApPersonaNonGrata]

My friend (a very smart and beautiful woman) has lived in Norway for about 20 years now.
Born in America, raised in New Zealand, lured at a young age to Norway by a malignant narcissist. They had a kid, he was super abusive and eventually left her

.She's been there alone ever since. She is a legal citizen there. But most natives of Norway are so intensely xenophobic that they treat all non-Natives as somewhat less than human.

Most don't want to be her friend (her social skills are actually great), they don't feel as inlinced to extend career opportunities to non-native (well-established) residents, they don't do as much to protect her parental rights when her psycho ex pulls stunts. They refused to give her later love-interest (a very prominent scientist in the US) the chance to work in Norway unless it was something menial like a janitor (and even then he'd have to fight for it); so he eventually gave up and she is alone in the world again.

She can't leave with her son until he's 18. So several more years to go. She isn't allowed to move back to NZ or the States unless she gives up her meager parental rights and leaves her son behind.

She spends most of her nights contemplating suicide.

So just to clarify, if you are a born-and-raised native, Norway offers reasonable social equality.
Otherwise, not.

[gabrielrangel]

I work for Dr.Pepper, in Houston, Texas for the past 16 years, & I was punished for going to the doctor for my mental health illness, & also for injuries.

To be quick, about 4 years ago I was on medication for anxiety & depression, something I've dealt with since a child. I was doing really bad, I had severe migraines, night sweats, I couldn't sleep, eventually becoming suicidal. I informed my manager about what I was going through but instead of receiving support & simply being allowed to go to my doctor & to take days off, I was told no. I was told to not take a day off to go see my doctor, I was told to instead go to work, then go to my doctor after my first stop during my break, then go back to work. I refused plenty times & took the day off as I should be allowed but that only resulted in me being punished by not having someone cover my route on that day that I took off. I would confront my manager & ask him why he didn't send someone to my route & he would respond by telling me that I should have came to work. I went to HR & told other managers but nothing was done. I was dealing with so much due to my anxiety disorder & bouts of depression that I just focused on my well being, they didn't care, they did nothing to punish the managers & HR for treating me the way they did. This is something that is normal here, if you need time off they get mad at you.

[VeganWithAraygun]

Generally speaking, money equals time, in that the more one has of both equals greater access to freedom. One can do more, travel more, have greater chances for positive brain chemistry & feedback due to having more potential time to create those rewarding experiences. The less one has, the greater is the feeling of constraints and thus the resulting brain chemistry.
However, the soul is capable of Independence from brain chemistry: the saving paradox for one is that happiness can occur despite limitations of wealth, & the potential depressing truth of wealth is unhappiness despite having it. Sometimes less equals more and vice versa. Interpretation is the key.

[tznwyvuk]

That's life. It's not all flowers and rainbows.

[LeonidasGGG]

I love to ear this guy... I'm just sad that after almost 100 years it still takes us studies upon studies to realize what is painfully obvious.

[adversarialxvx]

Johann Hari’s series is spot on! my man #myguy many good reflections, Sapolsky’s theorem, coherent and rooted in valid findings. hell yes.