Escaping the Illusion: Bernardo Kastrup Exposes Reality

Bernardo Kastrup has been leading the modern renaissance of metaphysical idealism, the notion that reality is essentially mental. He has a Ph.D. in philosophy (ontology, philosophy of mind) and another Ph.D. in computer engineering (reconfigurable computing, artificial intelligence).

Edited by: Antonio Pastore

00:00:00 Introduction
00:02:34 Bernardo's journey from materialism to idealism
00:07:08 Materialism vs Analytical idealism
00:14:03 Dissociative identity disorder (multiple personality disorder) and consciousness
00:19:20 Why does life has a separate consciousness and not, say, a rock?
00:29:14 What does it mean to "explain" without reductionism?
00:30:25 Why not start with "nothing"? What would a theory like that look like?
00:32:15 What does it mean to "exist"? Do abstractions exist?
00:35:53 Theories of "truth" other than correspondence
00:47:56 Randomness doesn't exist fundamentally
00:51:05 If the mind is deceptive then what do we trust?
00:57:44 Is "Mind At Large" God? Can you pray to it?
01:01:07 Morality and purpose
01:08:12 On disagreements with Joscha Bach
01:12:30 On disagreements with Daniel Dennett
01:17:37 On disagreements with Dawkins
01:19:43 On disagreements with Douglas Hofstadter
01:36:18 If everything is "in the mind" then why are objects independently verified and exert an influence when I'm gone?
01:38:56 On disagreements with Donald Hoffman and Thomas Campbell
01:44:01 The distinction between "in your head" and "in your mind" is crucial
01:54:39 On disagreements with Carl Jung
01:57:44 On disagreements with Roger Penrose
01:59:56 Why parsimony in assumptions? Why not many assumptions?
02:06:52 Curt says Bernardo's theory isn't better than the Flying Spaghetti Monster
02:13:48 On Schopenhauer
02:19:30 How to properly read Jung
02:25:11 Bernardo and Curt speak about the "new age" and "woo"
02:31:00 On Deepak Chopra
02:36:53 Does Bernardo fear death? (a story about ego death)
02:49:17 If this reality is a "dream", how much can we control it?
02:54:29 Choice, free will, and becoming a slave voluntarily
02:56:40 The intellect is a bouncer of the heart
02:58:08 The East vs the West have different answers to the suffering of life
03:02:20 The "self" is an illusion worth saving
03:06:02 Bernardo almost killed himself twice, and later found meaning in the suffering
03:10:14 On the pain of writing
03:15:59 Should you ever regret? (Buddhism vs Christianity)
03:20:39 If consciousness is all there is, and the self is an illusion, why did the East get that and not the West?
03:25:48 Can you have morality / ethics within materialism?
03:26:59 What's the weakest point of Bernardo's model?
03:28:25 Is there anything special about biological life?
03:34:36 Logic
03:36:27 What beats rationality? What's the "game of all games"?
03:45:33 How does Bernardo write? What's the process look like?
03:51:19 Bernardo gives Curt advice
04:03:51 Don't feel like "others have it worse." Honor your suffering.
04:06:22 Don't take yourself seriously but take life seriously
04:07:59 Disagreements with Tony Robbins and self-help
04:15:00 Brain as a radio tuner (Plastic Pears)
04:24:29 How to falsify Bernardo's theory? What predictions does his model make?
04:27:29 Other audience questions
04:29:31 The relationship between universal consciousness and the Platonic Realm (Sessaly)
04:33:57 These metaphysical questions are dangerous questions

[ramkrishnadas]

I just made my one time small contribution, could not hold myself any longer. Possibly, no one would read it, but still I would like to put my reason before some internet God who might stumble here, why for the first time I am supporting a podcaster, and I am just a minimum wage worker.
I was very deeply moved and touched by Curt's interviews, or it is better to say efforts, that for the first time, I found there is someone out there among thinkers/academics who is as troubled by me due to our ignorance, the lack of answers to our most fundamental questions; and whatever technological advances there might be, though they are important and have their place-but we are as ignorant as our primates or even non-primates forefathers about the most fundamental existential question. It is fashionable among almost all academicians and thinkers to dismiss them as irrelevant just becuase of the sheer difficulty; and then pretend that those questions do not exist at all.
I was particularly touched by list of his guests, and his openness to mysterious side of the life. While, I have not had any paranormal experiences, I have had strange synchronicities-involving multiple events and people in succession, but for me more than that, even this present 'normal' experience itself seems to be as mysterious as paranormal.
Seeing Curt's restlessness, I feel grateful that there is some other brother out there sharing my burden and anxieties. Thanks Curt.

[st.armanini]

As a "fan" and follower of dr. Kastrup I'm overjoyed to hear you saying this was your best interview so far! To put it mildly, you're making history here!

[iemandanders]

Kastrup is an extraordinary thinker. There is enormous truth in his words. Jaimungal's brilliant interview fuels K.'s eloquence. Wonderful.

[cashglobe]

Bernardo Kastrup vs. Joshua Bach ASAP! It would get so heated and it would be so fun to see whether Bach could convince Bernardo that a simulation can be conscious vs. if Bernardo can convince Bach that that position is completely absurd. There's no other intellectual debate I want to see more right now! Please make it happen <3

[GNichts]

If I would spend 4h41min trying to explain how important this interview is, how meaningful it is to me, and how deeply it touched the different levels of what I am, it would still not be enough! Bernardo Kastrup is such a brilliant instrument of mind-at-large and what you, Curt, were able to extract from him in this interview should be studied! Amazing job!

[laisa.]

I have been listening to Kastrup non stop for over a week now, and today, in this interview learning about how he almost killed himself due to tinnitus... I welled up, as I am in this very "topic" of non dualism etc because I almost killed myself due to tinnitus a few years ago. I can't describe the feeling with words, it's a mesh of empathy and sympaty and pain and hope and hopelessness... idk. THANK YOU BOTH for this *experience* of a podcast. 🌻

[mdgart]

This conversation is giving me the same sensation as a meditation session, like when you forget for a moment who you are and what you are doing and you are in a different mental realm, I would say a different level of consciousness but it would be a little misleading. Truly one of the most inspiring conversations I ever heard.

[prashantidutta]

My biggest fear was that I would die intellectually lonely. Thanks for proving me wrong- I can relate to so much of this. I realised all my life, I had been melancholic because I am in a journey to truth and it felt super lonely. Glad interviews like these bring out our existential questions for debate and discussions. I am so happy! A big thank you! 🙂🙏

[leogallagher]

This feels historical. This work is hugely important in my estimation- even though Bernardo self-admittedly is rephrasing what certain traditions have been saying for thousands of years, the timing of this message being brought so articulately to our culture is so valuable if it is spread effectively.
The collaboration between orators like Bernardo, and engaging hosts like yourself is crucial, and great job to both of you!

[ddod]

This is the best podcast I've ever watched, and I've watched a lot. Thank you. Both of you are doing TREMENDOUS WORK for humanity. Know that.

[Mramidu]

This also end up being a therapy session for me. These two gentlemen have no idea how impactful this interview was on me. Thank you !

[PepeNuclear]

“Framing the problem is half the solution”…5 minutes in and gem already. Gonna really enjoy this ride!

[nowenterpsie]

What an astounding conversation. Intellectually stimulating and 'spiritually' nourishing. Deep thanks for this wonderful gift.

[alimbo]

I'm so glad I came across this channel. I have been at medical school for 5 years now and my motivation for the work has been waning. Mainly because I am more interested in the question of consciousness and existence. There seems to me a kind of futility in treating the human body when these questions are constantly looming over my head. I'm glad to see there are people much smarter than me talking about these questions, because this is the sort of conversation and thinking I really do find interesting on a visceral level.

[skatemore]

Podcast of the year, everyone. Get ready!!

[Hasif]

This is by far the best philosophical, metaphysical exchange, I have been exposed.
Both the interviewee and interviewer deserves huge congratulations. You both have done a job for next four decades in four hrs.

[charmewithcem]

This is the single most brilliant interview i have ever witnessed. The natural flow of curiosity through the different intertwined topics is majestical. You truly possess a gift Curt and i was fortunate enough to be introduced to a great contemporary philosopher.

[fabionickels]

I've just started watching this conversation for the fourth time now. It still feels as fresh and insightful as the first time I watched it. This isn't just the best interview I've seen with Bernardo Kastrup, but one of the best interviews I've ever seen, period!

Thank you, Curt and Bernardo. I can't put into words how grateful I am that you've shared this with us!

[brickmork]

I don't even think I can begin to put into words the effect this conversation has had on me. The thoughts I am having and have been having today, just after having watched this talk in its entirety about 10 hours ago, will quite possibly change my life (well, life itself, that flows through me haha). The one specific idea that really came through for me and I found sticking with me, was the wording Bernardo used when he said not to take yourself too seriously, but to take life seriously. I think this is the idea people allude to when they talk about "surrendering the ego", but that wording never did anything but unsettle me. I've been following Bernardo's work for several months now, and he is so articulate and precise with his words that when this sentiment hit me, I knew exactly what was meant by the word "yourself" (ego) and what was meant by the word "life". This conversation evoked from Bernardo the best definition of the word "life" I've ever heard.
I don't want to call it too early, but I feel as if I have a starting point to actually start living my actual life at 24 years old, after pretty much hiding from everything to protect my ego. I've only scratched the surface of what this conversation has done for me, but I trust you know what I'm talking about since you experienced it firsthand yourself!
Thank you, Curt, for having the courage to explore these topics and to share them publicly.

[normanshadow]

You have no idea how impactful this conversation is. I'm an "uneducated" simple person with deep thoughts and niggling questions about the nature of reality since I was a young child. I'm so grateful for your podcast!