Uncovering the Bizarre Story of Dr. Louis Jolyon 'Jolly' West

Louis Jolyon "Jolly" West was a prominent American psychiatrist and professor of psychiatry who conducted studies on the effects of mind control and psychological torture for the CIA's infamous MKULTRA program. He is best known for his involvement with accused assassin Jack Ruby and his role in the infamous Ruby assassination trial.

West's research focused on the effects of trauma, hypnosis, and mind control on victims of torture. He was the first to suggest that mind control could be used to make someone commit a crime against their will. He also explored the effects of electroshock therapy and psychosurgery on mental patients.



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[TashaBella]

What I've grown to love most about the topics/people you cover is that they always have multiple reaches into multiple parts of history.. There's never just one thing they are tied to, there's always more than one and its fascinating to see how each character links up to another.. I think that's what keeps us coming back, at least its why I keep coming back. That and Mark's awesome storytelling and Eric's great hosting. Hoping you're both having a great festive seaon!

[billhowes]

My late brother, - in - law joined Scientology in the late 40s. They tried to recruit me in 1962. I met L Ron Hubbard at their headquarters on "S" St. NW in Washington DC. I was 18. It was obvious to me after a couple visits what they were. They kept after me for several years . All they want is your money. When my brother - in- law died after being with them most of his adult life no one from Scientology came to his memorial or even expressed condolences. They are a total fraud. Hubbard was a weirdo.

[feliciab]

O! M! G! I had a run in with The Forum in the spring of 1990 in Orange County. A friend from college begged me to go to a meeting in this rent-a-space in Irvine. I told him ahead of time that I had no money due to college bills and WOULD NOT be signing up for anything. During one of breaks during the "talk, " I was asked by a stranger if I wanted to join The Forum. I said, "No, I have no idea what it is about, and I have no money." I added, because I was very cocky, "I'm also a Christian and have no need for this stuff." The answer I got back was, "Thank you."

Then another stranger came up to me and told me he was a Christian and got a lot out of The Forum and did I want to join. I said no politely and got back, "Thank you." At this point, I was getting very heavy cult vibes. Another stranger asked me what I wanted to do after leaving college. I told him I was considering being a nurse.

Two minutes later a woman claiming to be a Christian and a nurse came up to me to tell me how awesome The Forum is and did I want to join? Now I was getting annoyed and said, "NO. Stop. I'm a Christian who wants to be a missionary and will most likely be doing medical missions. I don't have money for The Forum. I don't NEED The Forum."

"Thank you."

One minute later I had a man come up to me telling me he worked as a missionary and asked if I wanted to join The Forum. I answered very curtly, "I find it very interesting you people keep coming up to me with supposed similarities to me asking me if I want to join. I keep telling you no. During lecture time, the guy was stressing how important it is to be a person of your word. Well, show me respect and take me at my word. I don't need The Forum. I don't have any money. I don't WANT to join The Forum!"

"Thank you."

After the meeting, the president of the chapter approached me with a sickly sweet smile pasted on his face and asked me if I wanted to join The Forum. Then I exploded! I yelled at everyone standing around me. Told them they are a bunch or horrid people who disrespect guests. "I will never join The Forum. I will spend the rest of my life pooping on The Forum and anyone associated with it."

"Thank you."

It was the last thank you that made me want to punch the guy in the throat.

Needless to say, I no longer communicate with my friend who took me to the meeting. Years later, I was walking with a mom in my neighborhood, and she told me she had gone back, to The Forum to "get a reset." I just about lost my mind and blapped my whole story to her. She doesn't talk to me anymore.

[pkspalding]

"As you know, Scientology does not take criticism well." Perfect deadpan delivery, Mark.

[pthomas]

Poor Tusko. Very interesting show, thanks gentlemen!

[hedgedrisk]

46:50 I’m glad he took the time to clear this up, I was about to have to look that up, thank you Mark

[brentjohnson]

The Shaver case was in San Antonio. I know because the bar he was at was the same one my maternal grandfather went to. He was also "treated" for alcoholism by Dr. West. He eventually retired from the Army Air Corps but almost immediately left for Vietnamese language lessons at Fort Deitrich prepping to go to Vietnam for USAID. He dead the day he was supposed to leave. Both his wrists had been cut from radius to ulnar and from his wrist to the inner part of his elbow.

They said it was a suicide. My family never believed it.

[suzanbrowning]

I read poisoner and chief… great great read!!!

[tiptopdadddy]

A bizarre yet tantalizing coincidence I came across was that when little Charlie Manson got a write up in the Indianapolis star as a “troubled youth“ with a second chance, getting a trip to boys town arranged by a local priest at the church across the street from Central State Hospital, A charismatic local young preacher name Jim Jones was also working with troubled youth. It’s quite strange that somehow they both ended up in the Haight Ashbury during the summer of love.

[jaredpeterson]

I'm learning so much here. I now know that almost everything I knew and believed for most of my life was absolute bs. It's fascinating to find out how deep and broad the swamp is.

[TimSpangler-vi]

"For he's a jolly bad fellow...for he's a jolly bad fellow...which nobody can deny"

[frankdykeman]

Would you guys ever consider doing a show on chuck barris, the host of the gong show in the 70s ? He was supposed to be a hitman in the 50s, 60s and early 70s. A move was done on him a few years ago. Think it would be fun. Frank D.

[SuperStrik]

The CIA also outsourced studies in Ontario, Canada as part of MKULTRA that lasted at least into the 1980's. At the Oak Ridge Psychiatric Hospital For The Criminally Insane for example. The building where it took place was torn down but a newer facility is in the area. It's located in Penetanguishene, Ontario by Georgian Bay which is basically part of Lake Huron. The tests that were done there were tortuous and inhumane. Things were so out of control that the inmates/patients were prescribing other inmates/patients drugs. Not the doctors. The inmates/patients would be given massive doses of LSD, methamphetamines, various truth serums. Severe alcoholics were forced to drink huge amounts of alcohol. It was totally out of control and insane. This is just the tip of the iceberg on what happened there. Dr. Elliott Barker and Dr. Gary J. Maier were two of the main people behind what was happening.

Many lawsuits have been filed in Canada over the years and Barker and Maier as well as the Canadian government were found liable to pay around $10 million for all the damage done to the inmates/patients. I use the term inmates/patients because there were horrible people (inmates) there as well as people who should've never been there (patients). Obviously either way you can't do tests and run the programs that they did. They didn't care at all if it was against someone's will. The financial payouts doesn't of course fix all the damage and destruction done to the people who were there. On a side note the reoffending rate of the people who took part in the program was staggeringly high compared to the average prisoner in Ontario.

[pbohearn]

I recall the other unusual detail about Jolly West’s death is that it was a folie-a-Deux: Jolly and his wife, Kay West, PhD, suicided together. Kay West was a prominent psychologist and for a time Chief Psychologist at the VA Brentwood, which was affiliated with UCLA Psychiatry where Jolly was Director. So they were a Psych and UCLA Power Couple. They also ran Tavistock training programs for residents and interns which were extremely “experiential.” I was a postdoctoral fellow at Harbor UCLA and attended their intensive Tavistock weekend and it was intense. Tavistock is a psychoanalytic institution in London that studies unconscious group process, but was scandalized lately for their involvement in gender transitioning of children. PS I also did est in the 80’s and the Tavistock weekend had similarities to it.

[gregoryhudnall]

I know you guys might get tired of hearing this. I'm 67 and a former Marine expert marksmen and don't believe for a MINUTE that Oswalt could hit the side of a barn let alone a moving target. Let the festivities begin. Very interesting shows.

[kfoster]

Great program. Something that I learned about - Elephants are pack animals that normally live in tropical climates and roam hundreds of miles and should not be in cold climates and small spaces. Large animals in confined spaces and kept inside during colder weather can bring on illnesses and constant use of medications. The story of Tusko is terribly sad, and was actually repeated with another elephant in the 80's with oral lower doses. My friend donates to an elephant rescue and I knew about Tusko and many other elephant tragedies. Glad you mentioned Frank Olson....

[davidkurtz]

Since your discussing Jolly West and David Smith can you do a video on Reeve Whitson and his possible connections to MK Ultra and Manson

[jetpetty]

Another interesting character that was a pioneer in migraine research and a member of the MK Ultra program was Dr. Harold Wolff (1898-1962). I hope someone does a deepdive on this character at some point.

(Sidenote: ergot is a vasoconstrictor and helps vascular migraines and has been used medicinally for decades. Its history in every way it has been used is very interesting too.)

Thank you for this very interesting episode on Jolly West!

[AZ]

I love all you two are doing, so much knowledge, love to listen to

[Skunk-]

I discovered your channel in December 2022. I have watched many! "but not all of your videos". I decided today to join you guys and support you because you both talk about things that get my interest ., .Also! Mark is a very good talker and you both have a great sense of humor. "I love that aspect of this channel".. Thank you both for being such great entertainment! keep it going guys! The research you do is second to none! ✌