Bethel Redding & Modern Apostles: A Biblical Analysis

Holly Pivec and Dr. Doug Geivett join me on the podcast to talk about their provocative new book outlining the teachings of Bethel Redding, the existence of the New Apostolic Reformation movement, and the influence the movement has on the broader church through its wildly popular worship music. We discuss the Passion Translation, prayer declarations, and in this episode, I publicly change my position on singing Bethel songs in church.

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[janiceekarr]

Thank you for this!! Very timely as I just moved close by to Bethel and meeting many who attend there. Have been praying for discernment in my interactions with these lovely families.

[connaonna]

I love how these two intelligent people discuss the topic so calmly and always with the Bible in view. Thank you!

[MernFern]

The music is like candy leading hearts to unsound theology…as well as to new age practices. Been heartbreaking to witness firsthand. Thankful for the work you 3 are doing! Praying loads!

[Donna-qt]

Thank you for this podcast! The music is sadly in so many churches 😢

[Meat_Skraps]

The likes of Bethel teach another "gospel." I've been sounding the alarm on this topic for over a year now as well. Thank you for addressing this.

[joshtaylor]

25:20 so far these scholars have not referenced a single scripture to back up why they think Bethel is wrong in any of their practices.

I’m not suggesting Bethel doesn’t have errors, but I expected more biblical exegesis from people who are so adamant.

Two odd things stood out to me so far:
1) they quote Kris Vallotton, but then summarize what he’s trying to say instead of just finishing what he’s actually saying. Poor form.
2) they then bring their own perspective that prayer should be supplication and not declaration…whiteout a single scripture to back it up?

[michaelc.fischer]

This conversation is so timely for me.
I have been attending a church in Snohomish WA called PURSUIT NW (watch YouTubes) for a couple of years now and I’ve been so concerned with the direction the church is going. The church has grown from maybe 500 to now over 2500 in two years. I for one am totally exhausted. They have had Bill Johnson come. The church has rented the Angel of the winds arena in Everett Wa for Easter. Guest speaker will be Benny Hinn for an Easter evening healing Service. I’m having a difficult time because my wife and daughter are so sold on it. ✝️

[lindaclark]

It's according to faith, not hope that receives from God. My daughter was crushed to death 3 days before her 2nd birthday. What's in ur heart rises up at a time like that The Word came out of me, rebuking death & commanding life. She not only came back, but not a mark or bruise was left on her body. She was perfect. Now grown with children of her own, she's a gracious Christian serving God. She remembers what she saw & what Jesus said to her. If faith is in u & u dont let fear & doubt in, all things are possible. Healing is God's will.

[dorothyhughes]

As someone who is now Anglican and moved there from the charismatic world, I must say that I appreciate the different streams of the Faith. As far as brush stroking all "NAR" leaders with the same brush, I must say that since a teen, sharing the gospel with Che Ahn at a juvenile detention center 45 years ago, I have seen the godly, Bible centered ministry of Mr. Ahn develop and grow with sincerity, truth, dedication, and integrity. With a PhD from Fuller Seminary, he is a well educated, devoted, and exemplary leader, husband, v and father for the glory of God. Please be careful of lumping together various leaders, who share some similar theological ideas, based on the faults of a few among many thousands.

Also, concerning the "dominion" of areas influence: my understanding is that many leaders believe the church abdicated involvement in education, government, entertainment, etc, and now we are reaping that neglect. To see a call to make real difference for the gospel in the areas, is worth support, rather than denigration. Thank you for your time!

[JerrodleeJax]

Your 2 guests are amazing authors ! Thank you for hosting them....

[godsgospelgirl]

Thank you so much for drawing attention to these concerning teachings and the problematic Passion Translation.

[aaronlewis]

Don't forget about IHOP in Kansas City, Missouri with Mike Bickle.

[juliannebrancadora]

I'm finding that most mega churches I visit do not talk about their theology. I know people who go there, and they think "theology" is a religious word, and "religious" is a bad thing to them. They value emotional experience over correct theology.

[dianabaldwin]

Thank you for addressing what I believe apostolic leadership is, as taught from a Charismatic church. Our leadership submits themselves to the authority of scripture relying on God's Spirit (direct to the believer) for correct understanding and application to everyday life.

[Sheila-]

I formerly attended a church that, at the end of each praise song, they would indicate the music publisher on the screen and the majority of the songs were by Bethel Publishers. I was very uncomfortable with that. I no longer attend service there and have found a wonderful church.

[jessicamcgrew]

Thank you all for doing this. I joined a church 2 years ago that makes its boast in being a five-fold church. It seems like we have become obsessed with politics and the Covid vaccines now too. It was new and exciting when I first made the move, but now, I am questioning a lot of things. I just bought the book mentioned in this interview. Thank you again.

[MarlivV]

I wish clear and Biblical explanations with verses could be given side by side with the descriptions of NAR beliefs about God's kingdom, apostles and prophecy. Surely these ideas can easily be shown to be false when they are ccompared to Scripture and found to be completely contrary? It's one thing to say, 'Here's what they believe', but my friends and family in NAR don't understand why it is wrong.

[Glory.To.God.In.The.Highest]

Thank you all for bringing this to light! For me it confirms more solidly why I stopped listening to Bethel, Hillsong and Elevation about 2 yrs ago...before now I would have pointed to the leaders/teaching ...but now I understand it's all related to NAR deception coming out in the lyrics. We are told to call out false prophets/teaching. THANK YOU!
Ephesians 5:11
Take no part in the unfruitful works of darkness, but instead expose them.

[Henriette-van-der-Ende]

Some good stuff in this video. But also some not so good. Mike Bickle recently explained on remnant radio that he is not nar. And also Doug didn't explain New Testament prophecy rightly. In the NT time each believer has The Holy Spirit living inside of him. So when someone else prophecies you have to test the words yourself. And there is much more to say about that topic. Please dig deeper about testing New Testament prophecy. Love your take on TPT .

[paulski]

When Elijah called down fire, he said he did “all these things at Thy word.” He wasn’t making decrees independently from God. NAR has nuggets of truth, but misses the mark because it is the same old problem of independence from true submission, which is yielding your heart to God. Romans 8 covers this well. As for the 7 mountain mandate, that’s been taken the wrong way and distorted by non-thinkers in the Body. We are called to be salt and light in the world. 29:17