Wuthering Waves Echo System is Bad Similar to Genshin Impact

Wuthering Waves Echo System...

Wuthering Waves review
Genshin Impact comparison
Wuthering Waves vs Genshin Impact
Echo system analysis
Wuthering Waves monetization model
Genshin Impact monetization comparison
Echo system flaws
Wuthering Waves critique
Genshin Impact similarities
Echo system issues discussion
Wuthering Waves economy review
Genshin Impact echo system review
Wuthering Waves in-game purchases
Genshin Impact gacha system comparison
Echo system feedback and suggestions

#wutheringwaves #Jirieru

[Jirieru]

Oh btw I know this the internet and they will try to speak for me but no I'm not saying Genshin's system is better I haven't even played Genshin in 2 years I'm not a mint and I'm invested to Kuro but take as you will

[xddd]

It's definitely not as bad, it's much much worser on a different level. There's a total of 17 substat that you can get in wuwa, in genshin there's only 10. In Genshin, you can choose to upgrade those artifacts where you saw 3 or 4 good substat, in Wuwa, you had to upgrade every echo to know which next substat they will give. And it's a 5 set echo, means you can't substitute one of it which other set (with good substat). Also, genshin first two slots' mainstat is fixed, in Wuwa, all 5 echos mainstat is random.

Using maths, in genshin, if you get 3 good substat, your chance of the artifact being 8-lined (considered perfect) is 0.75^5, which is 0.237, meaning you need around 4 artifacts of the same to get the perfect one. In wuthering wave, to get 5 good substat, your chance is (1/17)^5 to get a perfect one, which translate to around 1million echos. Even you can farm infinitely, who want to farm the same echos for 5millions times (considering drop rate at 20%). Sorry i missed the mainstat farm part, times the farm number by the number of mainstat available for that slot, I'm not sure how many, maybe 3-5?
Yes genshin requires resin to get an artifact, but you can consider the artifacts are already upgraded 4 times for free and let you see the 4 substats already. It took one run to get 2 5-star artifacts with 4 substats. In Wuwa, getting two 5-star artifacts, with 20% drop rate at max, and maybe 3-5 mainstats, you need to farm 30 - 50 enemies to get the two 5-star with the mainstat you want, but your substats are still hidden. Think about how repetitive the game can be, killing the monster over and over again, through the same route everyday, at every other players world. How can that be fun? But english community just like, wow you can get echoes without spending stamina! Finally, content!!!! Not energy gated, YAY!!!

I think English community always has one thing is that they didn't look things deeper compared to Chinese community (I'm not saying which is better, sometimes you enjoy a game better when you only understand the surface). All reviews in Chinese most competitive gaming forum - NGA for Wuwa is bad, not to say the worst, but it's pretty bad. Just a bit better than ToF I would say. The same thing happened for ToF, Chinese community put 0 hope for the game, they know from start it's nothing that can be put in comparison with Genshin at all, which English community calling it potential genshin killer lol.

Also, you need to spend stamina in wuwa to upgrade 5-star echo, which is not refunded if you make it a fodder to another echo, and the exp return is only 75%, in genshin is 80% with chances of 2x and 5x too. AND the min/max is crazy also. In genshin, lowest substat roll is 0.7 of the highest max roll, eg. 3.89% crit rate being max, 2.72% being min. In Wuwa, the min roll is 0.33 of highest max roll. The randomness and grind is just crazy.

People talk about how mihoyo is very greedy, but do you guys know that Kuro designed a whole new ult animation to calcharo C2 when you use his burst? Do you know with weapon banner being guaranteed, it literally means most of the characters will come with signature weapon that if you don't pull the weapon, you won't be playing this character in full as the mechanics are seperated into the weapons (based on how they designed PGR to be). Do you know that even with a 80 pity system, the rate increase start at 70+ same as genshin, where genshin average 5-star pull rate is 74-75 which wuwa is found to be very close to that amount too. Everything that wuwa doing now is them trying to make the game very marketable to genshin's players "AT THE SURFACE" especially for global players who isn't more analytical compared to Chinese market. What they're betting now is getting the first few months of big bucket money in through these "FEELS GOOD" surface number and mechanics before ZZZ is released. The game feels very rushed now and they know they have no time but need to release it.


I for sure will be playing Wuwa too, but the way english community is praising the game is very surface and i worried it'll crumble once people finds out more. Definitely not like ToF, as the combat in Wuwa is good.

[finalavanger]

we don't have to look to the bottom (genshin) always

[tokekch]

i wish there will be an item to make we can choose a spesifict stat/sub stat for the echo

[ZonzaAce]

I agree, I think there’s 2 core concepts I hope they improve bare minimum for echoes.

1. Starting point for the echo’s stats should be known

- For instance, show what the tuning slot will be not the specific value it will roll. E7, Gi, HSR etc. let you know the starting point at +0/+3 not the end result.

2. Purpose to unwanted echoes

- A LOT of ways you could do this even if you use PGR as a base, but they’re the devs not us. For now as you mentioned they just take up inventory space, are a pain to recycle, and offer next to nothing when recycled.

I think once you max the gourd you only get gold echoes at least in cbt1 so hopefully that’s still the case. There’s a number of other hot fixes and QoL that could be made to echoes like you said to improve the user experience for everyone, but those are the 2 concepts I hope are improved bare minimum by 1.0.

I get it’s actually tricky since you can infinitely farm main stats especially if you hop to other players worlds, but we’ll see.

[shadowrxmpxge]

people should listen b4 rage commenting

[rsg_magfire]

Reading the title alone, I see people getting mad already lol

[HekunanaSoy]

Good video honestly. I have the same thoughts about the Echoes even though i love the system itself, but it's such a mess right now they need to clean things up because if it goes live like this without any qol (especially with subs and the tacet fields being extremely limited and unrewarding) people will mald about it for sure.. and also if they really need more variety of f2p/gacha weapons because if you need to spend at most 80 wishes for every new character's weapon to get the biggest stat push it will feel so bad

Edit: AND WHEN YOU TRY TO CLEAN YOUR INVENTORY FROM THE FKIN DOGWATER ECHOES YOU GET NOTHING BACK THAT IS SO BAD

[momengouda]

basically it's the farming hell part of the game as same with the Artifacts in genshin, cuz you know, they want people keep farming for good rolls on substats, that's what made genshin alive till now, it's a bad system yes but it's the reason people still playing to get god rolls, but i hope kuro can adjust it

[bsk.nishathafroz]

the best way to upgrade their echo system imo are
1) let ppl ban few substats since there are 14+ substats
2) in tacet field let ppl choose the echo to drop and if used another special item let them choose main stat
3) un-upgraded echos cant be used as fodder, got to change this
4) need to add a salvage mechanic as in hsr
5) also u need to farm for exp to upgrade echo which another grind either increase the drop rates or let ppl complete the grind in one go and let them choose how much stamina to use
6) and also give either one or two substats on the echo so that player could decide to upgrade or not

[pronoun]

Gacha games are Garbage. They are meant to manipulate you into spending 2-3x what you would spend on a full game to gamble for a single character, or F2P for months missing out on most characters

[MarcSy]

If this is the case in release, even if I really want to move away from Jenshin, this will greatly disincentivize me to even consider this. But it is still the beta so hopefully things will be ironed out more.

[boo]

3:15 what do u mean by sub stats since genshin too does not have crit as a main stat but also always a sub stat

[JabelldiMarco]

I didn't get why it's more efficient to farm echo's in WW than artifacts in GI?
One artifact run takes maybe a minute giving 0.5 top tier artifacts and 2 2nd tier, multiplied but the probability of having the desired attributes (ad it take 5 minutes or more to clean up your inventory after every run).
[For me, that is the most despised part of GI.]
How is this handled in WW?

[sachi]

The whole system is not bad just the grinding and upgrading part of it. They only need to do is fix the RNG.

And this is only beta test not the final, so you can't judge it yet wether its worse or better than genshin.

[darknight]

Honestly, all these "limiting crutches" ruin attempts to even try builds with some variability and unconventional ideas.

Most players will run to watch guides, since no one wants to waste their resources on something "suboptional".
And let's not talk about restrictions in the governments of some countries about "enery systems" - If it was only reason, there would be no way to buy stamina for real money (will bring as much money as the in-game gacha)


(I haven’t watched the news from beta tests, give me correct info)


Are serious challenges still focused on timer, as in similar games? Not on hit/combo/remain HP counter?

If so, then of course, crits will be mandatory for every character, and this is maximum boredom for me
(no way to "cheeze out" enemies by endlessly dodging, tanking or any other funny strategy)

[ThatDjinn]

I was filtered by a nonsense non-story that provides 0 motivation. I played Genshin for 1 year before coming to my senses of what an insane waste of time it is. The only reason I could get hooked on WW is if the story and characters were decent, but they aren't. In 2 hours nothing happened to give me any motivation to continue, and in fact there were huge dialogue dumps that led to nowhere. Worst main-character-has-amnesia 'plot' I've seen in a long time and first 2 hours had maybe 10 minutes of actual gameplay that didn't involve following a quest marker or reading dialogue. I like playing games, I dropped WW before it let me start playing.

[askarn]

continue playing Wuthering Waves even if it might be as bad as genshin when it comes to RNG, but for some reason you seem to enjoy your time in WW.. i will play WW when it comes out and i will still continue playing Genshin and many other games i enjoy.
Only the thought of having high expectations of a game can sometimes ruin what you enjoy most in the game, some greed is good but too much is bad for the game itself rng included and in the end your own health😇

[emailsampahcegil]

Its better than farming artefacts with resin, in wuwa i don't find it difficult to get echoes since i can farm them unlimited, that's the most fun about the game. Wuwa is more advance compare to genshin, and the most important thing that the dev is listening 😄. I can't stand genshin anymore it's feels like outdated game.

[akashi]

well low crit rate but 150% base crit dmg i think fair
about the echo yea i think it has too much rng in it min maxing will be a hell, sure end game might not locked by time like other game that need huge dps but more about skill but still that just make thing less exciting
i want to flex more thing to fren u know xdd