Icon Veneration is CLEARLY an Accretion!

Gavin Ortlund outlines the Protestant concern about venerating icons, looking at its development in church history in three phases, and the Protestant biblical interpretation of that development.

Truth Unites exists to promote gospel assurance through theological depth.

Gavin Ortlund (PhD, Fuller Theological Seminary) is President of Truth Unites, Visiting Professor of Historical Theology at Phoenix Seminary, and Theologian-in-Residence at Immanuel Nashville.

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00:00 - Introduction
01:59 - 1) What is Icon Veneration?
07:58 - What is at Stake?
12:34 - 2) Historical Overview
13:14 - Summary of Scholarship
18:50 - PHASE 1: Ante-Nicene Church
22:50 - Justin Martyr + Athenagoras
23:28 - Marcus Minucius Felix
24:42 - Origen vs. Celsus
25:47 - Clement of Alexandria
26:29 - Irenaeus
26:48 - Tertullian
27:56 - Lactantius
29:06 - Arnobius
30:39 - Synod of Elvira
31:37 - PHASE 2: Nicaea I to Nicaea II
33:32 - Epiphanius
35:43 - Eusebius
38:57 - Augustine
40:48 - Philoxenus of Mabbug
42:07 - Gregory the Great
46:09 - PHASE 3: Nicaea II and Beyond
47:57 - Empress Irene
48:32 - Council of Hieria
49:31 - The Pentarchy
50:26 - The Western Respone
56:19 - 3) Biblical Interpretation
58:18 - Latria vs. Dulia
1:02:21 - The Ark of the Covenant
1:07:18 - The Bronze Serpent
1:08:03 - Other Concerns
1:12:47 - Concluding Summary

[mitromney]

As a Catholic considering Protestantism for several years now, this video was very important for me. Thank you Gavin. I've been doing my best building a defensive case for my Catholic beliefs, but more and more I feel like some of Catholic doctrines are impossible to properly defend, it boils down to appeal to authority of Pope in so many issues... Veneration of images was ALWAYS a hard pill to swallow for me too. I remember being on a Retreat Mass where all participants were asked to venerate an Icon of Mary. Not even Mary herself, but very specifically, her icon, and the prayer that followed was also, very specifically, addressing and asking THE HOLY ICON to answer the prayers. I can not describe how haunting and disturbing was this event for me. I wasn't educated enough to know why what was going on was wrong, but I knew it, I felt it in my heart, in my very soul. I was watching lots of both Catholic and Protestant Apologists on this and other topics that were concerning to me for years, and your channel has been, hands down, the best content for this purpose I've ever seen. Please keep answering these hard questions Gavin. You have no idea how hard it is for us Catholics to find a way out, even if we feel in our gut that we should. These videos are very helpful.

[RevHancock]

I don't know why youtube put this 2 year old video in front of me, but I needed it

[TruthUnites]

There is one thing about this video I take very seriously, and that is the thumbnail. Question my scholarship all you want, but you cannot deny that my thumbnail carries scholarly gravitas.

[Berkana]

Thank you for putting this together. May I request one thing? Could you put this into the format of an article with full quotes of these church fathers and citations? An hour-long video is a big ask for those I want to show this to, but this video is one of the best resources on this topic I've come across. Please turn this into an article. This need to be seen far and wide.

I myself am a former Catholic, and I am deeply concerned that there seems to be a trend of Protestants who have been converted to Orthodoxy or to Catholicism. Catholics and Orthodox are far better at attacking iconoclasm/aniconism than Protestants are at defending it.

[ramichahin]

Easily one of the best Protestant video on youtube

[noobitronius]

Praying for you, Gavin. This has caused quite a stir and dealing with accusations, mischaracterizations, disingenuous interpretations, and lies thrown at you is hard. Especially when in online communities like YouTube, it feels like you are outnumbered and outnumbered = you must be wrong. Be encouraged that you are doing good work, and the hasty responses that have been made to you completely mischaracterize your views and dodge the points made. Most importantly, I'm praying that you are graciously given the strength to fight off the attacks of Satan which tempt you to anger, defensiveness, and pride - may God get the glory!

[michellemcdermott]

I am a devout Catholic and attend daily Mass. I have never worshipped a statue.

[kaseyod]

How is this free?! So well done. I am very impressed. Thank you for laying it all out for us. Blessings, brother.

[Featheredprop]

This was wildly helpful. I can't imagine the research that went into this. This has been an incredible blessing to me. Thank you. Dane

[shelbyhurd]

This was beautiful. I believe your intellect is a gift from God. Thank you for all of your work. I will be looking into purchasing copies of your works. May God bless your soul, my brother in Christ. 🩷

[nazarenehebrewassembly]

I am pro-orthodox but this brother is dropping bombs in this video, I am very taken back by this information. I am protestant but have been swaying more and more towards Orthodoxy over the years but I can't deny that this video is very powerful in regards to the use of icons. I do not see how this can be refuted by anyone, it is very well sourced.

[bethsaari]

I see Protestantism as a pursuit of the truth not a pursuit of one’s own private judgment. Protestants DO acquiesce to something: The leading of the Holy Spirit as found in the Word of God. (John 17:17)

[ArrayzableMusic]

Thorough Indeed. And deep in history. Loved this episode!

[JohnLittle]

This is surely one of the most intellectually challenging videos I’ve ever seen. Committed Catholic here, and that commitment’s still standing, but Boy, we’ve got some ‘splainin’ to do.

[aerobaro]

I am very impressed with the careful attention and historical basis on which you've dealt with these topics. Excellent video, sir.

[pgc-]

Superb historical and biblical overview and analysis. Thank you.

[zakthedragonslayer]

I've never heard anyone speak about this issue in this depth, this really helped me. Thank you for your help.

[nathanielchristian]

As a Protestant enquiring into Orthodoxy, the dogma surrounding icon veneration arising from the Seventh Ecumenical Council has been a significant barrier to entry. I've actually grown to admire the practice of icon veneration, and see how it could add value to a Christian's life. But I can't see myself agreeing that it is a necessity for sanctification/theosis, or that any Christian failing to venerate icons is anathema to the Church. I was initially drawn to EO because I thought it preserved the liturgy and worship that Christ taught the apostles, but I have found the arguments for 1st century icon veneration to be severely lacking. Thanks for all you do, looking forward to watching this!

[luvpamelanewton]

If they are "venerating" an icon, why is it okay to anyone else other than Jesus Christ then? They are still reaching out to someone else other than Jesus Christ.

[deannmiller]

THIS WAS AMAZING and answers so many of my questions about my greek orthodox friends practice! I appreciate it!!!