80 Columns on the Commodore 128 without RGB or an adaptor?

Ep 50 : Can the C128’s VDC display 80 column text and graphics on a standard television or LCD flat panel without native RGBi support or an expensive adaptor?

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[ScrapKing]

I spent most of my time on my C64 using a terminal program, and GEOS. What an upgrade the C128 would have been for me! Especially since the terminal program I used had a bitmap graphic-based faux (and fuzzy!) 80 column mode. Ugh. An actual 80 column mode would have been a crazy upgrade! And GEOS 128 would have been a big upgrade too. Oh well… I was a kid buying electronics with my allowance, so a second-hand C64 it was!

[seisoloumano]

I love to use the composite mode of my C128 on green monochrome screen, and it looks fantastic. I love the video and the short format. As a consumer of retro computers content, I don't mind short videos as long as they are interesting or convey passion.

[dmc]

I was c128's biggest fan, 25 years ago more or less i had c128 and c128d later, and i was fascinated with dual cpu and 3 OS features, i wanted to know everything and use it to the 100%. I even used cp/m for my diary writing :) Of course there was no internet and software & documentation was hard to come by and expensive (mostly pirated). I always dreamed of having 80 columns and use VDC for wordstar and dbase and cp/m, even after 25+ years i still have this a bit sad feeling, but your videos about c128 they are working therapeuticaly, thanks :) if i only knew about this cable... it is a big revelation for me, really :)

[DrDavesDiversions]

Super cool to share for those that didn't know of this monochrome sol'n. It is exactly how I ran my 128 (with my 1702) with a cable I built myself to run GEOS 128 - this was super cool c. 1987/1988, and how I did my school work when I started college, basically like having an early Mac.
11:02 I love that you're rightly excited about this mode!

[RandomBitzzz]

This is how we used our 128 for a few years before we got a color 80 column monitor. I made the cable out of spare parts I had kicking around. 80 column GeoWrite was such a killer app on the 128.

[patrickdeunhouwer]

Yes should have known this in 90 something when I only used 40 colom, recently I saw a video of the 8 bit guy mentioning this and now this video :)

[michac]

I like all your content, as it's well researched and professionally presented.

[Charleshawn]

a game that is most definitely in my top five Commodore games. When I bought my C128D a few months ago, because it had been my 3rd Commodore computer from 1988-1990 while stationed at Fort Polk LA (My 2nd was a SX-64 from 1986-1988 while serving in West Germany and I also reacquired at the same time as the C128D) I found on eBay and probably paid to much was a complete boxed Beyond Zork in great shape with everything that should of came with the game. This game would only work on C128 in 80 column mode and I think this was the first piece of software that I had bought for my C128D back in the 80's. Just to fill in the gap in the story, my 1st was a C64 for Xmas 1983 that I left at my Mom's during my six years in the U.S. Army. I still have it to this day still hooked up to my 1702 monitor and 1541 drive from the 80's all still sat up on the walnut computer desk that I built in 11th grade woodshop class.

[mcd]

80 column for the C128 was a godsend back in the day. Paired with programs like Superscript 128, you had a word processor that was at least the equal and quite often superior to anything the PC or Mac worlds might throw at it. Clear, fast and easy to use. Thank you Commodore! And when you had finished working, you could switch to 64 mode for games.

[francoisleveille]

My own flat C128 was equipped with a switch to toggle between the VIC-II's color output or the VDC's monochrome output on the DIN-8 connector.

[idreamtinbits]

Have personally a great full color solution myself with a 1084S-D1 monitor for my C128DCR and a RGB2HDMI for my C128D, but great video to show there is really no excuse left to use that 80 column VDC mode as such a cheap cable as in this video already gives so much benefit in monochrome 80 column use.

Great video to spead the VDC love.

[horusfalcon]

I greatly enjoy your videos, and like the "retro without pain" approach here. Long or short, a computing video should do two things well: explain the subject matter understandably, and get the point across. Well done in both respects!

[tetsujin_]

3:00 - Two reasons why this revelation never struck me back in the day:

1: I don't think I ever bothered to read this particular pinout
2: I thought 80 column video signals were black magic special sauce fundamentally removed from the mere mortal plane of TV signals.

So even if I'd seen there was a monochrome pin, I would have thought you'd need a special monochrome monitor for it.
But I certainly used enough GEOS 128 that a monochrome monitor could have been of some use to me... Though it was real nice not having to have two separate monitors to use C128's bizarre combination of two completely unrelated video systems.

[Doug_in_NC]

A caution for anyone thinking if doing this: I bought one theses composite cables when I first got my C128, but none of the flat screen monitors or TVs I have were able to lock onto the signal very well. It was only when I passed the signal through a composite to HDMI adaptor that I got a decent result.

[MuI]

i love your video's keep up the great work and i hope your channel will grow alot

[notkittenaround]

I can't believe I hadn't thought of that! Thank you so much for the tip! Definitely gonna make a cable for my 128, it's a bit of a hassle hooking up the cga2rgb and then connecting that up to my gbs8200 just to use 80 column mode since i share it with multiple other systems. I mostly use it for cp/m so color doesn't matter to me and nothing runs in 40 columns.

[waynemorellini]

I may have an explanation for the 16 sprites.

The engineer Herd? Quoted a conversation that he wanted a particular VDC but somebody from MOS, said they had another chip. He asked or said, as long as it was compatible with the original parts features. So, he locked in the part and found out it wasn't like the original part.

What was this part, it sounded to me like one of the part numbers of the refuced Amiga chipset that Motorola was setting up to produce before all the post Amiga purchase lawsuits (you will find the parts referenced as the original colour computer 3 chip set, a UK 68000 computer, and motorola press release). I also have proposed in the past that Commodore should have made a 64 replacement with 80 column mode and 16 sprite supports, or even the 64 itself (a character set based 80 column mode is easily doable, and better graphic modes and colour depth follow in future editions going to 640 mode and 256 colours, until a cheap Amiga can be done). It's funny that tje STe had 16 sprites, at the end of this period. Where did they get that from? 16 sprites is an unusual choice, though I figured it was just enough to get a good deal of spites on a line.


The problem is Chuck and others had already left, and Jack left, pulling other people along with him in the after math. So, the series under the plus 4 lost it's rudder, and the 128/64 didn't enjoy their wisdom. Chuck and teams came from professor advocating for a home computer revolution, and Chuck and his team were trying to start it off. Chuck talked Jack into home computers, and helped solve engineering problems with the Apple and original Atari VCS/2600 (As to why the plus 4 didn't have a 80 column mode as a chesp business computer, I don't know. They were already shooting multiple unsuccessful shots at thst market with vic2 and mon vic2 machines). I think if Jack was still around, he'd be firing people, maybe even throw a prototype. The plus 4 was sunk over graphics handling and no 80 column mode, and the 128 in having its own graphics handling issue, version of graphics chip, and not being able to run all modes auto switched through the same monitor (but really needed an upgrdaded vic2 chip with 80 column 16 sprites of 4 colours+ any resolution, 16, maybe 256, colour 200*160, maybe 320*200, and 4 colour 640x200, and one or two years after the 64 as a 128).

To me, it seems they were planning the basic for a different featured machine. The 6502 and z80 had features they couldn't fully implement in time, do they were not activated. Maybe the vic chip in there has 16 sprite support hidden in some unactivated buggy circuitry on the chip, which could still be activated. It's engineer might know. If so, was the circuit design used in vic chips on the later 64'S, and they have dormant 16 sprites (maybe with extra colour depth on a bus with enough clock)?

[coyote_den]

Yep, I got a 128 before I got a monitor with RGBI. I did have a 1702 tho, so the VIC was hooked up to Y/C on the back. I made a cable to connect the mono output of the VDC to the front.

[be]

Cool. I knew I shouldnt have sold my old Commodore 1901 back in the day.. alas.. this cable would get me back into b/w 80 columns with my Commodore 128D...

[doctordapp]

Quite funny, the Grey shows like a bad photo copy from an old b/w scanner 🤣