Christian Nationalism vs. Mere Christendom? | Doug Wilson & Stephen Wolfe

Doug Wilson and Stephen Wolfe discuss Wolfe's new book "The Case for Christian Nationalism" and how the idea of Christian Nationalism compares and contrasts with Pastor Wilson's proposed "Mere Christendom" project.

Preorder 'The Case for Christian Nationalism" today!
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This video is presented by Canon Press.

[moshemorgenstern]

I'm an Orthodox Jew who grew up in Toronto in the 1950s and 1960s. Canada at that time had a very British flavor to it and was predominantly Protestant religiously and culturally. The world I grew up in was very much the "Christian Nation" that Doug and his guest describe. Everything was closed on Sunday and public decorum was maintained. The city was known as "Toronto the Good." Apart from some very rare instances of mild anti-semitism and a bit of feeling "other, " I felt quite comfortable in that environment and felt safe and secure with what I considered a sober and responsible government. My world was well ordered and my family's religous beliefs were respected. As a Jew I would have no problem going back to that kind of atmosphere though I fear things are going to get worse before they get better.

[roykhan]

As a "fresh off the boat" immigrant (from a non-english speaking nation) the acid test I've asked myself as well as other immigrants is the following: now that I've been accepted by this host family (the American people), would I be willing to fight to defend America even against my own country of birth? If the answer is no, then all I deserve is a green card (a conditional right to stay in the US and no right to vote). If I answer yes, then this type of loyalty deserves the US citizenship. Becoming American (or German, or Italian) is a privilege, not a right. Assimilation (consciously rejecting some old ways of life and incorporating new ones) is crucial to keep a national cohesion. This process is primarily done thru language ( a bumper sticker I saw when I first moved here rightly said "welcome to America, now speak English"). "Open border policy" is a tool of destabilization along with multiculturalism, the strange notion that all cultures are equally valid. If it were so ( that my culture of origin is as good as the American one), like millions, I would not have left my place of birth.

Ex-European citizen by birth, now proud (American) Christian Nationalist by choice.

[CanonPress]

Preorder 'The Case for Christian Nationalism" today!
(affiliate link)

[Globeguy]

28:22
“Providence has given to our people the choice of their ruler, and it is the duty, as well as the privilege and interest of our Christian nation to select and prefer Christians for their rulers.”
- John Jay, First Chief Justice of the US Supreme Court.

[JonJaeden]

Just give us back our legal right to discriminate. No longer disarmed in the public square, we can fight nonviolently.

[brianh]

Part of the nation's "common experience" is family relation. The root word of nation means birth, no? People don't fight to defend random conglomerations of individuals. We are trying to put a modernist take on the word "nation" when we try to separate the two. God created the nations and appointed their times and places. The US in its infancy imported peoples based upon their general ethnic and religious compatibility, knowing numbers were needed to dominate the territorial claim. As that has changed, we see how we're now a polyglot of people, debased in our faith, who have very little affinity for one another.

[dorianjohnson]

Americans have been cut off from their Christian heritage. We sit in our pews on Sunday, without realizing that Christian men shed their blood to see that a self governed nation could one day exist. And we’re giving it away.

[jlm]

I'm Puerto Rican and I totally agree. Puerto Rico will never be a state and it never should. We are a different country with our own history, culture, and Spanish is mostly spoken. We are a Latin American island nation.

[jacobmorin]

The vast majority of Christian nationalists I have talked to, are either Roman Catholic or Eastern Orthodox. I am LCMS

[CKD]

"In a Civilisation where nothing is sacred, everything is up for mockery" - Me.

[BuildingByFaith]

I'm glad people are thinking about thus and encouraging others to do so, as well. I hope their main point is that, as Christians, we are citizens of this country and should bring our Christianity into society (passive and active) and participate in government (don't leave the "dirty work" to others). I think the main thing that is missed (or at least not emphasized enough) is that the foundation for our constitution/nation was the first great awakening (broad-sweeping personal revival), i.e., people committed to following Christ took the lead. Our constitution is not Christian, though it could only be conceived by Christians, and society was Christian because the people were Christians (not because the government mandated it). The best way to Christianize a nation is to evangelize it. A nation is Christian in proportion to how many Christians live there. I wonder if we don't like this because then we would have to get out of our comfort zones (which is why the USA has become less Christian, namely, Christians recoiled when presented with ungodly behavior/ideas instead of engaging them. Thus I am glad Canon Press is at least engaging the culture even if I don't agree with everything they do/the way they do it.

[CornerTalker]

Robert Lewis Dabney (March 5, 1820 – January 3, 1898) was an American Christian theologian, Southern Presbyterian pastor, Confederate States Army chaplain, and architect. He was also chief of staff and biographer to Stonewall Jackson. His biography of Jackson remains in print today.

[interestedmeow]

21:24 the Guadalcanal metaphor really falls apart if the other guy’s great grandfather was Japanese. This is a bad idea and they can’t come up with good examples of it as a result.

[guigudin]

Conclusion: NC is an abstract and difficult to define concept that allows you to exclude anyone you want, denying the inherent universality of true Christianity.

[robertlotzer]

The problem with any form of collectivism, which certainly includes all forms of nationalism, is that it will always overemphasize the interest of the state to the exclusion of the freedoms of the individual. This would be further exacerbated by a group of people taking over and remaking a state after the people have already been formed in union. It is one thing for a group of people to go buy land and start there own commune with there own laws where everybody agrees. But you can’t possibly do that without people who did not decide on the values of that new state. You will always have dissenters of those values and at that point the state will either decide to protect the values of the collective or the values on the individuals. The previous will always have to restrict the rights of the dissenters who would refuse to follow the collective. I for one, even as a staunch, conservative Christian would oppose any collective and always defend individual freedom even to the point of death!

[sparkomatic]

nation is people. country is place. state is governing apparatus. a nation remains a nation regardless of place or government.

[CarrLuke]

On a technical note, please cross-shoot your close-ups! Generally, I want to see more of each speaker's face in the close-ups, not less (because it's in profile). Maybe it wasn't possible for some reason, but the cutting to the close-ups felt less-than-meaningful. Also, it took me a long time to realize there was actually a physical object between Wolfe and his camera and not simply light interference. I've been in these small crew setups, so I understand the difficulties, but every little bit of professionalism helps!

[becka_boo]

Sick of the algorithm! It’s desperately trying to get me into this ideal. I don’t believe in it! I’m a Christian who recognizes that this nation is multi cultural and I firmly believe in the separation of church and state. Talk til your blue in the face, this is not what was intended!! We get to believe how we want and others have those same rights! We are not meant to be a nation built on any one religion at all. Hence, why it’s in the Bill of Rights!

[gabish]

The premise that the state should be directing education is flawed

[oliverwoods]

Wolfe makes it clear in the book's introduction that his "political theory" lays the essential natural law foundation for nation-building.

However, God is more than welcome later on to chip in some political theology based on Wolfe's foundation if He would care to do so. What could possibly go wrong with that?