Was Eddie Jones 'Toxic'? | For The Love Of Rugby Podcast

After some explosive quotes in Danny Care's book we ask if Eddie Jones's England environment was toxic. Were the players afraid of him? And was Ben on a list of untouchable players?

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[biggeege]

Lawes said eddie turned his career round plenty and it showed on the field

[footyfin]

I'm Aussie, been aware of Eddie since late 90s when he was Brumbies coach. No question - he was ABSOLUTELY toxic to Australian rugby throughout 2023. Rugby in Australia hasn't yet recovered from his toxic influence - and will not for some time. No doubt about it.

[concrete]

I find it hard to believe and a little disingenuous that these two don't understand where Danny Care is coming from. The Aussie's absolutely hated Eddie and felt they had a gun to their head with how they played on the field. Not exactly what you want as a player. Even back in the early 2000's you heard about the same BS with Eddie. Eddie liked these guys and so they got picked and are now defending him as a coach. But if they were treated like Care or Brown they would be singing a very different story. To not see that is a major blindspot.

[mcbudget]

Everyone points to the eddie jones era of 2016-19. What about the three years after that? Was eddie able to listen to feedback from leaders in the team and take that onboard when things were not going well? Impression from outside was that when he’s under pressure he doubles down on “my way or the high way”, hence the loss of so many good coaches working under him. A good task master, but is that enough nowadays in modern international rugby. Certainly doesnt work for long term.

[vitamingreen]

There could be something to learn here from the way Rassie coaches. When there are team meetings, the whole squad is there. The leadership group is never separated from the rest for any meeting, so no one ever feels left out, and nothing is left to speculation. That being said, Eddie was, in my view, still the most successful coach England ever had.

[LetsOGGE]

England were crying out for a coach like Eddie Jones. England were mediocre for so many years and EJ brought the change they needed to be a top tier side.

EJ had gotten players to reach their potential and had players exceed their potential (eg Haskell) I thoroughly enjoyed watching England between 2016-2019.

[fin-edoj]

Ben might not see it that way, but Eddie absolutely had favourites, or untouchables, in his squad. The fans can see it because we watch matches from an objective point of view. When Danny Cipriani was absolutely tearing up, he couldn’t get a proper go, and when he did get a game vs South Africa, we smashed them. Then he was basically never picked again

[TomFarrow-oowm]

I think people need to realise that different coaching styles work with different people and perception is always relative.

Care & Cipriani might have interpreted his coaching style as being demeaning and bullying because they were getting criticized but weren't getting selected, Ben & Anthony probably saw it as him being really honest about their shortcomings but not rude or bullying because they were getting selected.

I personally think we should have stuck with Eddie. He got us our best run of results in 15 years, and even his final season in charge was better than Borthwick's first two seasons results-wise.

[Grayson_Baker]

Of course Ben Youngs would say this. Eddie kept picking him way past his best.because he wouldn't argue against him Ben Youngs was only picked for his kicking and that was not great. The high turnover of coaches say more about Eddie. The 10/12 Farrel Ford was terrible. Playing players out of their position on multiple occasions and he did have a bunch of untouchables. No matter how bad they were performed he kept picking them.

[BenRelle]

I bet Danny is loving this. Book's been serialised, some juicy bits in the paper, completely out of context of the book. Loads of people who haven't read the book talking about it, making the only way to find out what was really said was to read the book!

[Powerofmorris]

I’ve seen this so many times with senior managers at work who rule by fear. People say “Oh, he’s an alright bloke really.” People have to stop lying to themselves and how these people actually make them feel. They don’t make anyone feel good, they just make them feel scared of not performing and losing their job. Observing it from the outside, there were several players who didn’t seem happy to playing to their potential when they went into the England camp under Eddie. Sam Simmonds was an example, 2 or 3 years ago when he put on an England shirt he didn’t look anywhere near as confident as he did in a Chiefs shirt, that comes down to management!

[CJ-MUFC]

Eddie Jones is a ‘live by the sword, die by the sword’ type of coach for me. The accusations of bullying are troubling and I recall the injuries some players got from the training they did. But Eddie saw the type of success that England should have. Runners up in 2019, undefeated streaks and 6N trophies. Really from a results view, he pulled a 2015 broken England to dominate in NH especially.

Eddie is a dictator authoritarian type of coach which are great in a crisis but their aura wanes as the years go on and performances start to dip. No doubt did Eddie bring England phenomenal success at times. But there were sacrofices alojg the way. I suppose thats the reality at elite level sport in the heartland of rugby in England.

[trudy_triad]

This would be a shocker as Eddie seems so chilled

[garygavin]

I like marmite. Danny had a book too sell. Rugby is brutal. Japanese Culture is you sacrafice for the cause. Eddy left a lot off bruised eggo's . I doubt he cares. By writing this I doubt Danny does either. Thats life. Ben has been a man committed to a cause at Tigers. He knows what loyalty is. I trust his words. Fair & balanced, they are. I love watching Anthony Gliding around the park with class. He also knows how to tackle a problem.

[fin-edoj]

The truth is probably somewhere inbetween Danny’s & Ben’s opinions. If you were part of the inner circle, like Ben was, I imagine it was excellent. But if you weren’t part of the clique, I imagine it could have been quite difficult

[tonyalways]

Jones is the most successful England coach ever with his 73% win rate. For me and my son to go watch an England game costs roughly £1000 including travel, accommodation and food. For that I expect to see England performing at the highest standards but I rarely do. What I do see is a lot of very nice cars in the car park as Eddie pointed out, players who clearly aren’t as fit as the top teams and a complete lack of accountability from coaches and players alike. Swing Low Sweet Chariot should be replaced by We’re Getting Better as the England chant.

[crazycjk]

The reality is that people thrive under different management styles, regardless of their career. Eddie's style clearly worked for some players, and not for others. Perhaps Eddie was unable to adapt his style for different players and their needs? That feels most likely to me, but who really knows.

[OliCM]

Only those in the camp can truly give a valued opinion on what Eddie Jones was like, but he very obviously had his favourites and the opinions of those who were in the golden group differ drastically from those who weren't.

[KernewekTim]

One man's meat is another man's poison. For me, if a man can give-out, a man should expect to receive, within reason. A boss should never give-out at a crew member in front of the crew. Do that, and a boss might find himself a black-eye. A boss and his crew are only as good as one another, from my experiences. Woodward's crew won a RWC. Enough said.🏴‍☠☘

[mr.lerato]

Eddie is better than Dave Rennie. Aussie sqaud that Eddie had to coach had big ego😅