The Church Can't Go Back to 1950

Thanks to the magic of social media, I was reminded this week of a focal point in the never-ending struggle between orthodox and modernist factions in the Church today. I had posted something about how doctrine that isn’t merely a reproduction of the sentiments of popular culture is essential to a community and culture that can resist being swallowed up and assimilated by the secular world. And someone replied by saying that they remember what the Church was like prior to the Second Vatican Council, and that they would never go back to that. Which was kind of surprising because I thought to myself, I’m not sure how this relates to what I said, but OK, let’s … let’s do this. And in their reply they pin-pointed a common point of contention that often gets raised in debates about modern Church culture which is that the pews used to be full and now they’re not – and if you’re more traditionally minded, you might think, we need to turn back from the path we’re on as it’s having clearly deleterious effects on the Church and her efficacy in proclaiming Christ to the world. But, no, this person claims. Don’t fall for that trick that’s not the way. Sure, there may have been seminaries bursting at the seems with religious vocations, and churches overflowing with attendance every Sunday, but you’d be mistaken if you thought that was an indication of the vitality of the Church. He goes on to claim that most of those people only came to Church for compromised reasons like fear of judgement or damnation. And now that we’ve changed our ways and stopped using fear as a manipulative tactic to get people to come to Church, they don’t come any more and all that remains are people who truly love God for the right reasons.

[duaneadams]

I'm 72 and I clearly remember how things were in the "old" church, and I can assure you, things were better....more reverent....more prayerful...and more holy.

[BrianHoldsworth]

For whatever else you might say about this video, I just love reading all the comments from the 80+ crowd. It's such an honor that you're sharing your knowledge and experience with us.

[paulcunningham]

Families were stronger. My parents gathered us five kids to say the rosary every night. I think the breakdown in the family is closely related to the breakdown of the church.

[Bob.W.]

born in 51. served mass for years. remember it well. yes, the church hierarchy and priesthood had problems, especially in being imperious, but it also fostered a reverent attitude towards the Mass and Eucharist. I loved walking through the snow in the dark to serve at early Mass.

[drknight]

Kudos to you young man! Your take on this subject is amazingly logical and a breath of fresh air.
I am 72 years old born in 1949. I went to Mass with my mother and grandmother and I had no clue what they felt or thought but I saw what they exhibited by their holy example. It convinced me that what we where doing must be very important and quite sacred.

[rosemariekury]

I’m almost79and remembering a flourishing Catholic vitality at this time. I attended Catholic elementary school and we had Mass every day. However we also had three priests, where today you’re very lucky to have two. They seemed to not have as many administrative duties either. We had a ladies sodality for teens, a Holy Name Society for men and scouts also. We always had parish events like dinners, dances for the teens and bake sales! The fire and brimstone was mostly from Parish missions in Lent and Advent. Anyone remember these? We used Missals that had Latin one one side English on the other. We attended Mass not because of fear of hell but because of the First Commandment. Then it changed. Altars were stripped, Communion rails vanished( nothing in Vatican 11 said they should) as well as statues replaced with modernistic plaster Stations of the Cross. I blame the bishops who took it upon themselves to order these changes, and Catholics resented this. My great grandmother donated land for the Church. Now I understand it’s a Baptist church! I miss novenas, Holy Hours that lasted 3 days with professionals and Benediction and no nonsense homilies together with weekly Confessions. Maybe I’m old school, but we did have sermons about sin and dressing modestly in Church. The culture crowd would have a fit if this was done today and maybe priests suspended.

[mairint]

Thank you Brian. I am 82 and I remember when the Church was alive, when we did not have heretical Hierarchy. The Masses were packed. Sodalities (men’s and women’s) were well attended and Children’s Masses were every Sunday. Monday night Novena for Our Lady of the Immaculate Conception was a regular custom. Holy Days punctuated the whole year. The people knew, loved and sang all the hymns. Thank God The Latin Mass is growing again and has many young men emerging as priests from the seminaries.

[nygmlpw]

I'm in my 40's. Converted 20 years ago to Catholicism. Started attending a TLM 10 years ago, and although I didn't understand the latin, or all the goings on, I felt like I was at home. My heart was instantly there. There is a strong young adult community there. Some with piercings, some with tattoos. Their faith is literally on fire! Their stories range from being raised in that community to leaving a cult and being embraced by the TLM community. The grit, the truth, the variation (diversity) of people is a beautiful work of art indeed.

[MNkno]

Not only are our memories of the church in the past affected by our age at the time, they lack historical perspective. What I sensed after talking with "the grownups" was a deep thankfulness for having survived WWII, and a recognition that we all need God's help and guidance. Many had gone through places that were as bad as it gets, and wanted to help make this world a better place.

Probably more importantly could have been that people in the 1940's and before also didn't have exposure to TV, and if they wanted to do things with the whole family, taking the whole family to a bar in town just wasn't healthy or affordable. Attending church picnics, sing-alongs, summer camp and potluck dinners was less expensive and healthier fun. Gathering there, you could have a known social network of people who knew people, and most probably would have your interests in mind along with their own interests.

"Back then" there were athiests, and people who were anti-church, but their opinions didn't make their way into our homes and families the way that has been going on for some time. I'm not talking about the direct attacks but rather what has made its way into the general culture, prioritising the self-interest and emotion, casting church attendance as "boring", "irrelevant", and somewhat like the prisons that school attendance have been charactured as. Attending church was a chance to learn how to read music, how to read long texts, (pick up a bit of Latin, which did improve grades at school), and how to ask adults questions that they had trouble answering. Learning how to sit quietly and try to figure out what was going on has also been a really good skill to have as an adult.

Your point about pandering to personal preferences is also good. Part of the Offertory is our sacrifice of praise and thanksgiving (and our time) and to do that, we sacrifice our personal preferences for an hour or so once a week. It's a good exercise. And if there comes a time in our lives (in the army, in natural disaster, etc.) when we can't excercise our personal preferences, having offered that time of sacrifice in the worship service can help us weather that difficulty with more grace.

[kathrynbregel]

"Jesus came to save you from yourself, not to congratulate you for what you already are".

Amazing quote

[oldcait]

"People went to Church out of fear... & Nobody knew what was going on..."
What a Crock!
I'm 81, born & raised in a Parish, in St Louis... Catholic Schools & Daily Mass, GS thru Jr College. Catholic life was centered in the Parish, for all ages! In GS we had awesome Nuns, full Habit, great Women who made sure we Understood the Mass. Anyone who didn't know Latin/English translations by 8th grade, probably were never going to know it! (It's now called, 'Immersion') Catechism Classes were Daily along with age appropriate Activities... ie:Choir & Practice for Girls, & Older Boys, "mentored" the Young Altar Servers.
7th-8th Grade-We 'Protested' a C Rated movie, "The Outlaw"@ a neighborhood Theater. (It was gone the next day.) In the Jr Legion of Mary we Volunteered & visited local Nursing Home's & played Cards, read to, or just Visited... 1st-5th G, we had Mission Projects... Collecting School Supplies, & Care packages for School Children in Europe... (Parochial & HS's routinely had the highest Vocabulary & SAT Scores in the Country.) We had Scout programs, & the Softball & Basketball Teams played inter-mural Games with other Parishes
When Boys got into fights on the Playground, Fr O took Charge & brought out Boxing Gloves. (He was a Chaplin, & Front line Vet)
Bottom Line, not everybody was a Fool or a Hippie... Or Silent! It wasn't paradise, but Kids could play Outside, & go for Walks!
ps: "Nuns were Mean"-All Children think adults Correcting them are Mean!
Look what happens in Cities when 2yr olds in Adult Bodies, have Tantrums!

[trinabrousseau]

I was young, about 10 years old, but I remember how things used to be. None of my numerous siblings and cousins (and I mean numerous) are still in the Church. I recently returned but none of my siblings or cousins have ever returned. There were some problems ( some of the nuns in school were really mean!) But let me tell you, they sure put the fear of God in you, which is a good thing. We learned to be quiet and respectful in Mass. And we learned not to touch the Eucharist with our hands. And if any of us girls showed up to school Mass without our Mantilla, the nun would bobbypin a Kleenex to our heads. So when I came back to the Church several years ago I was appalled at all the changes and how irreverent most people were while in the presence of the Blessed Sacrament. Thank God I found out about the TLM still being available and there was one within driving distance.

[kathyd]

I am 67. 7 years old in 1962. But I remember the beautiful choir. I remember beautiful May crownings that my sisters and I took part in. I remember mom buying us pretty hats at Easter and all the women dressed beautifully and the church being full. I remember being surrounded by a strong Catholic community. I remember sitting next to my mom at mass with my First Holy Communion Missal - still with the Latin responses - and following along. I remember the priest being very kind but serious when I went to confession. Fast forward to now: I am happy to have found a TLM mass and my son and his family joining us. Their daughter just made her first Holy Communion just the way I did. It made me cry with joy!

[DavidSupina]

I hold the position that the Church was in a tough state in the fifties and that the reforms that happened around Vatican II were not all that helpful. It’s like a doctor who correctly diagnoses you with a broken arm and then proceeds to treat you by stabbing you in the eye. So now, while I don’t blame the council itself, we find ourselves needing to correct the first problem and now also the bleeding eye. It will get done, eventually, but things will be plenty messy in the meantime.

[robertweidner]

“One week they had the Latin Mass. The next week they had guitars. The third week they became non-practicing Catholics.” That’s how my mom described how fast the changes in the Mass happened and how quickly my grandparents left the Church. The Mass had become ugly, and they didn’t want that in their lives.

[leoniea]

Now that is absolute rhubarb ! I grew up with Latin Mass and church was full...there was order . There was sacredness ....one can almost say we now have circus ....

[dawncerbone]

All I know is that when I go to mass at a “modern” church I feel empty and I don’t feel as if I went to mass. When I go to a more conservative/traditional mass and especially the Latin Mass I feel the presence of Jesus, I feel full.

[loriwengerd]

I was born in '61, so, to your point, Brian, a little too young to recognize the changing church at the time. But what stands out as a remarkable difference between then and now is the number of devout men who attended daily Mass and played very active and visible roles in the Church. They were there with heads bowed, families in tow. It made a huge impact on me to see these farmers and football coaches and business executives love God that much.. I'd love to hear you opine on how we can get men back -- and have them stand firmly in place. Because when we women take over, as we do, men of today back off.

[Jerry-zqst]

I recently turned 66. I have vivid memories of my years as an altar server (1965-1973). Our parish was fully engaged in the life of the Church. Our Masses were teeming with large and lively families. The TLM was beautiful, reverential, and quite frankly, awe-inspiring. I certainly didn’t understand the Latin I was reciting—even as an altar boy on the altar—nor the myriad rubrics of the Mass, but I always sensed on a level beyond the cognitive that God was present in the sanctuary. I’m blessed to now be a member of a traditional Catholic parish which embraces the orthodoxy and reverence of my childhood church.

[richardmcleod]

I knew so many Catholics who left the church after Vatican II. I never understood why, but today I do know why and can see the modernization that has occurred and has led people to think "It is all good". Jesus spoke about Hell the consequences of evil more than any other topic. But sadly, such is forgotten today and primarily since Vatican II.
I now know it is not all good which has been forgotten by so many people today both inside and outside the Roman Catholic Church. Read G. K. Chesterton and find great enlightenment.
"All Scripture is given for Doctrine, for Reproof, for Instruction in Righteousness that the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works".