INFJ vs INTP Stubbornness

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[grumpyschnauzer]

This is a 100% (quite) accurate! My INTP and I (INFJ) are both stubborn but in different ways and for different reasons. I may not be able to use the same language being used here to describe but my partner and I have had discussions around this.

My partner has a hard time accepting information that is new unless they are seeking it (aka open to it). And I make a distinction between accepting and considering.

With us (INFJs) prioritizing others (how they feel in tandem with HOW, not what, they think) we are a lot more accepting of people proposing information (that we quietly accept/not accept) whether or not we agree. Because we are perspective shifters we are less stubborn in hearing and understanding others POV even if we disagree. That does not as easily sway our own POV and the sharer will never be aware. My INTP will likely only entertain intellectual sharing of information if he has an interest in the topic (INFJs are not as discriminatory bc it’s more about the other person than it is about us - on the surface). My INTP is a lot more stubborn when information rubs up against his established “principles” and solidified understanding and these aren’t always tied to what others value. For us INFJs, what others value matter.

My stubbornness comes more from when others project onto me as attributing what I think or feel and it is not true nor accurate. It’s one thing if someone is sharing an idea, belief, or piece of information contrary to my own (and I do not feel the need to vocalize it - same as INTP). I will validate their perspective but the stubbornness arises when that said person mistakens me hearing and understanding their POV for agreeing or adopting said POV. INTPs can be very good at making this distinction up front through massaging and cajoling with questions. INTPs are good at disclaimers in conversation. INFJs are not which is why we can sometimes be accused of being judgmental (directness INTP does not possess). We lack the Ne-open ended flexibility in negotiating POV when it’s our POV we are negotiating, if that makes sense.

Of course, depending on the context and the audience this can greatly influence how I engage with others and my stubbornness whereas with INTP what you see is what you’ll get across the board. If I’m having a discussion with close family members and reveal more of myself the stubbornness might be more prominent and aggressive (usually has a moral basis for this temperament). For my INTP partner, he offers the same level of disclosure (or lack thereof) regardless of who the person is… he suspends his direct opinion more but is stubborn to sway it. I am more likely to “include” the information to shape my Ti more easily and readily than an INTP.

Side Note: As a young INTP and INFJ we would not have gotten along that well. My INTP was more dismissive of what others think when he was younger (thinking he is smarter and everyone is stupid LOL) whereas when I was younger I was more open and less stubborn. I’d let peoples perspective and projections roll off me. As we’ve gotten older this has switched.

[ShizuruNakatsu]

I kind of do both 😂
I'm an INFJ and I do often talk about how everybody is stupid. I used to tell people I didn't want to make friends at school "because they were all idiots".

I didn't mean in the academic sense. I don't care about your exam results. That isn't what makes you valuable.

I meant they're "idiots" because they're selfish, self-serving, egotistical, shallow, superficial, manipulative, greedy, closed-minded... because they fight, because they use other people for their own sick pleasures... To me, a person is "stupid" if they're a bad person.

I don't care if you have a PhD and an IQ of 160, if you use your knowledge to create evil... To harm or suppress others, or have a negative impact on the world in any way - you are an idiot and you're wrong, and not worth my time.

[jaimeflor]

As an INFJ, I hope that people get a concept. When they don’t or their opinions seem to lack a big picture perspective, I will see it as a lack of logic, lazy thinking or a complete inability to understand in the first place. I’m not constantly doing this like a Ti dom might, but it happens. I’m also an enneagram 5 though & I’m a student worker at a university. I imagine that influences my approach to these type of situations.

[StephanieJeanne]

Me, stubborn?😄 Well, I can only say it depends on the topic of conversation. I can either think there is a lack of morality/spiritual awareness on the part of the others I'm speaking with, or a lack of understanding of my meaning (whether that means lack of intellect or something). I'm definitely not outwardly forceful about it, unless I know the person(s) well. 😊

[Coneman]

I think INTPs are more independent minded but more conventional (Si) in terms of tradition and style. INFJ are more susceptible to Fe while INTP care less due to Fe inferior.

I suspect their stubbornness just differs like people reading of INFJ versus ExTP (INFJ read deep but are bad at world craft while ExTP are good at world craft but bad at deep reading). The difference is probably the source of the stubbornness.

Working here mainly with intuition, I could be talking rubbish 😂

[pas]

Could you do a video analyzing J.P. type? I've always thought he is more ENTP, do you have some sort of explanation / analysis ?