Sam Harris vs Jordan Peterson on religion and the meaning of life | Cal Newport and Lex Fridman

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GUEST BIO:
Cal Newport is a computer scientist who also writes about productivity.

PODCAST INFO:

SOCIAL:

[LockeLeon]

5:20 When you talk about Jordan eventually a 'roughly speaking' is going to come out.

[lnc-toku]

Also, I'd SO love to see Lex have a discussion with Jordan.... wow, two very deep, measured thinkers discussing the heavy topics of life!!

[chaosss]

we officially have our word of the year..."Petersonian"

[zacharychristy]

This actually crystalizes my main problem with Peterson very well. If religion is the Rutherford model of the atom, a practical model for making predictions, then Peterson's tendency is to place the Rutherford model above any modern Quantum mechanical model, because the Rutherford model has been useful for a long period of time.

Additionally, his equivalent argument would be that even if you know the Rutherford model is incomplete, you still believe it's a higher truth than the quantum model if you simply act as though the Rutherford model were complete, and that's obviously not true.

[Yellow-Rose]

"There was a boy, a very strange enchanted boy. They say he wondered very far, very far, over land and sea. A little shy and sad of eye, but very wise was he. And then one day, one magic day, he passed my way. And as we spoke of many things, fools and kings, this he said to me-
"The greatest thing you'll ever learn
is just to love and be loved in return"

[dogfriendlynz]

Sounds as if someone asked "what does jordan peterson say but explain like I'm a teenager"

[jltdrum]

Not really to be the devil's advocate here but I would expect a person like Carl Newport to be a bit more cohesive and systematic in his arguments - precisely because that's his forte: focused attention, commitment to the logical framework of the topic at hand. I tend to believe Sam Harris is the person to emulate here - his words are measured, his style authentic, the focused attention paid on every syllable uttered hugely respectable.

[rahult]

He mentioned Karen Armstrong more than the other two. How did the title become SH vs JP?...

[demondeacon]

Meaning: Love God. Love others. Love self.

[lnc-toku]

I can't wait for my day's work to be done when I can listen to this whole podcast! Love Cal's little nod for Jordan Peterson's philosophy....at least what I think I picked up on in this short video.

[ciprh]

Lex, I understand this title gets more views but I think it's misleading. Those two are barely mentioned while Karen Armstrong is much more often named.
A better and more correct title I think would be something like "Religion as a sui generis OS for life".
I sent this clip to somebody for this exact idea and he dismissed it by default just because he could care less about Peterson, yet I think he would've been interested. I had to do the extra work of explaining to him that the clip is not about Peterson at all (or Sam Harris for that matter).
Don't let the youtuber mindset get in the way of conceptual clarity. As an engineer I'm sure you understand why that's not right.

[thomasmurray]

"...to experience the fuller extremities of existence, and dare we say 'spirituality' or consciousness, in a manner that our overcivilized minds are incapable of experiencing now..."

[DoubleI]

Cal is one of the most down to earth guys on the tube.

[notna]

I never understood why we need religion when we have philosophy. Why would you want to restrict your thinking with some preconceived notions, while philosphy allows you to go anywhere in search of meaning.

[jltdrum]

I'm startled to realize that Ken Wilber is not at all there in the picture in any of such dialogues these days. Doubtlessly his was the sole formulation that ever successfully reconciled both worlds and came closest to reality as possible.

[blakerupert]

what's the audio hiss in the background? radio interference?

[nupurnishant]

Cal Newport is one of my absolute favourite authors. I really respect how down to earth and no-bullshit he is.

[StephenIC]

The thing is I think the Harris/Dawkins/Hitchens criticism of religion was necessary. Most people dont think about religion in such a sophisticated way as Jordan, they think they know who and what God is and that "he" dictated whats in the bible and "he" wants this and doesn't want that.

I've been an atheist for years because this literal interpretation is what I faced growing up and it seems completely and obviously wrong. Peterson is the guy who has made me interested in religion, because the way he speaks, he doesn't believe in the book literally but that its the deepest and most important metaphor we have. I do think if religion is going to survive it will be through the "Petersonian Ian" lens.

(I know JBP didn't invent this way of thinking but he's made it mainstream)

[chrisgadsby]

This type of question crops up regularly with Lex. I find it curious that he hopes to find deeper meaning via something we create (AI) rather than in our "roots" etc. Even the Sam Harris types need a substitute, because it seems to be a perennial question for mankind.
I'm not religious, much older than these guys and Darwin is one of my heroes. However I couldn't ignore that some religious type concept emerged in every culture, in every part of the world. Due to JP and others I've become more open to the symbolic wisdom idea, rather than literal meaning.

[BlueBellGoPro]

Who ever is generally and holistically content in all the spectrums of their life’s positive and negative know the meaning of life and the others are searching for direction.

I am extremely stubborn at being myself and the idea of my life changing unsettles me as I like my life as it is.