Jordan Peterson & Sam Harris Try to Find Something They Agree On | EP 408

Dr. Jordan B. Peterson sits down with author, philosopher, and app developer Sam Harris. They discuss the benefits of routine meditation, deleting X (Twitter), the issue of defining a Higher Good, the reality of evil, and the difficulty in establishing a shared morality.

Sam Harris is the author of five New York Times best sellers. His books include The End of Faith, Letter to a Christian Nation, The Moral Landscape, Free Will, Lying, Waking Up, and Islam and the Future of Tolerance (with Maajid Nawaz). The End of Faith won the 2005 PEN Award for Nonfiction. His writing and public lectures cover a wide range of topics—neuroscience, moral philosophy, religion, meditation practice, human violence, rationality—but generally focus on how a growing understanding of ourselves and the world is changing our sense of how we should live.

This episode was recorded on November 27th, 2023

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(0:00) Tour dates 2024
(0:40) Coming up
(1:14) Intro
(3:19) Where Sam is now, the Waking Up app
(11:30) Optimizing your niche, leaving twitter
(15:07) The hallucination machine
(24:30) The fallacy of immediacy, Elon Musk
(33:05) Have we found objective morality?
(42:49) How Postmodernists break the meta narrative
(47:13) If “good” is indefinable, what about “evil”?
(53:05) Dogmatic bliss, archetypes, and animating ideas
(1:02:58) Issues with having a Higher Good, and the absence of one
(1:10:16) Do positive attributes have a commonality of good?
(1:16:38) That which you most want is found where you least want to look
(1:27:56) The celebration and protection of religious dogma
(1:43:52) How to differentiate between knowledge and dogma
(1:53:02) Why Harris remains an Atheist
(1:54:24) The conclusion Dr. Peterson has derived from the biblical corpus
(1:59:12) A four year old Stalin
(2:06:34) There are none that are so blind as those who will not see

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[herrrmike]

JP now does what I have been trying to teach my friends to do. He begins by listening, then demonstrates that he has understood what he heard, and (only finally) explains how or why he disagrees or offers his position, while seeking to establish and expand points of agreement. This is how discussions converge on truth.

[kevinross]

I always like it when two people who disagree with each other can still be friendly with one another

[fostjusk]

I listen to most conversations from Dr. Peterson This one is in the top 3 I would say. I’m a Christian, and hearing more of Sam’s point of view helps me understand better the position and the courage of an atheistic perspective that has at its core, the propagation of more good and increased well being in the world. I haven’t quite gotten that from previous conversations with Sam Harris or Richard Dawkins. But my sense is that these are truly great men I need to understand better. I do now do a little better I think thanks to JBP.

So many conversations go no where because of the confusion of definitions, and the unwillingness to use certain terms that don’t fit as neatly in someone’s mental framework. This conversation deals with that like I’ve never seen

I appreciate Sam’s willingness to grant Dr. Peterson his perspective using mythological and religious language. Which I personally find helpful even if he most often doesn’t.

The mutual respect and humility from both these men was empowering to me. I can see where the points of agreement, at the very least are crucial.

I hope I can approach important conversations half as well.

[bisenmare]

Peterson looks really healthy, friendly, and open in this. Glad to see him doing this well and being this open-minded in conversation.

[leeobrien]

Jordan Peterson has evolved as a conversationalist in a wonderful way and this discussion highlights the fact that the best of JP is still yet to be seen.

[Somong]

I listen to these two have the conversation I wish I could create, let alone find.
I appreciate their decisions, patience, contributions, and processing.

[MarianneHMiettinen]

This is your best discussion with Sam yet! Due to increased listening, and trying to find points of agreement.

[BackOfTheMob]

The conversations between Peterson and Harris are some of my favorites of all time, as they help me flesh out the conflicting views within myself. Who knew after the first disastrous conversation we would be here today. Thank you both, as always 🙏

[Fishdemon]

Super glad the two of you got to publicly speak again, I’m a huge fan of both of you. Hopefully this will lead to more conversations and further understanding of each other

[Gibbynotaguitar]

As a long time listener to both Sam Harris and Jordan Peterson, what a Christmas gift to have. As the fun uncle killing time while the grandparents, parents, and kiddos all go to bed this was a treat to be up to listen to on Christmas! As a former Christian, then Atheist, now somewhere in the middle spiritual person, this is perfect. Merry Christmas everyone. 😊

[sayadjsg]

Proof that two people with COMPLETELY opposing ideas can peacefully have a discussion, and even friendship.

[JaxWylds]

I just imagined a better world where our journalists used the skills of trained psychologists to make interviews with real impact like this. What a dream!

[wilsenna]

This was the best conversation I have seen with Sam Harris on this topic in a long time. I have been a long time listener of Sam since 2004 or so and in the last 6-7 years haven’t felt the need to listen to him on religion. But you managed to extract more out of him which reignited a few things in myself.

Looking forward to the next one.

[blackops]

I hope you two realize just how important these discussions are. Honestly some of the best conversations I’ve heard where from you two figuring out exactly where you align and even differ with each other. Truth and rationality are so important and I believe you both share that common ground which makes these conversations so important. Glad to see the both of you together again!

[marcussmarcus]

I want more of this. Sam Harris and Jordan Peterson conversations are so interesting, and i can't wait to see more of them!

[ThinkingTogetherPodcast]

Jordan, I am extremely impressed by your listening ear throughout this conversation. Not because Sam is hard to listen to, but because we know you love to speak. Much appreciate you letting him take the stage and asking such great questions! <3

[marypoole]

You have been a gift to me this past year Dr. Peterson. Keep up the good fight.!

[notgodzod]

Great to see these two finally having a really productive discussion. Can't wait for part 2!

[flaviusmaftei]

Great discussion! As a fan of both Sam and Jordan I have been waiting for a new conversation between them for some time. So glad to see it finally happened again. I hope for many more in the future!

[johnoswald]

Thank your Dr Peterson, your conversations and lectures have had a profound affect on my life and you pointed me to Carl Jung and it is truly an adventure. Thank you sir.