Complexity, therefore God! | Intelligent Design | The Watchmaker Argument

Wouldn't the mark of an intelligent designer be simplicity and not complexity?

[justincredible.]

If god is perfect, he can't have desires.

[WhoThisMonkey]

The hallmark of design is simplicity, not complexity.

When you smash a mirror, the smash is very complex, but it wasn't designed to be so.

[sideboob]

But...but the rules are different for my gOd!

[justincredible.]

We humans are very mediocre mammals. Eyesight, nah. Hearing, nah. Smelling, nah. Speed, nah. Walking in hour after birth, nah... and so on.

[PedroNR]

This old flawed argument of causality.

The Law of Causality does not say that everything needs a cause. It says that everything that comes to be needs a cause. God did not come to be. No one made God. He is unmade. As an eternal being, God did not have a beginning, so he ­didn’t need a cause.

[jayb]

Our universe had a beginning, although there may be a universe that had no beginning it's not ours. If we are a creation it's irrelevant whether or not our creator is a creation because we are.

Our universe had a beginning therefore it has a cause if we lived in a universe that didn't have a beginning than we wouldn't require a cause. Also our universe is designed in such a way that our perception is limited.

We can't consciously observe most of the mass/energy driving the expansion and gravitational force of the universe. According to our best scientific measurements the universe is made up of the following.

69% Dark Energy
25% Dark Matter
6% Atomic Matter

We can only directly observe and measure 6% of our own universe, the rest we have measured indirectly because most of our universe is outside of our direct perception. It's clear you can't play the "if god exist" who created god? game unless you're ignorant.

If we existed in a universe which accidentally transpired why would such a large percentage of the energy driving our universe be outside of our perception?

That's what a perception is for, to perceive the environment around us. Why would so much of a universe be outside of our sensory perception unless that was intentional? Most of our universe exist inside of our conscious perception outside of our sensory perception. We can't directly observe or measure dark energy or dark matter but we can indirectly measure it.

So most of the universe exist outside of our sensory perception but inside of our conscious perception.

[Galbergoth]

If he's describing the God of the Bible, then yes. It is a flawed concept. That God lies. He has regrets. He betrays his own servants no matter how faithful they are. He condones slavery and human sacrifice. He demands stealing and destroying the properly and lives of others. He is jealous and wrathful and incapable of forgiveness.

[casualtrips]

Ive always said this. People love to say oh "you cant have something from nothing". Then they say god created everything. Then i follow up with "oh, if you cant have something from nothing, where did god come from? You need something to make god, and then something to make that which made god and so on infinitely.

[malemd]

Some people in this thread will make patently undemonstrable statements like "God always is and was" and that we don't need proof since it's so "obvious"

Please provide proof of such assertions otherwise refrain (I can make assertions endlessly as well, btw). The atheist position is simply a response to theists' claim that some particular flavor of god exists...

All we ask is 'please prove your statements' and ALL we get is 'god always was and is'

[amostamuka]

That's what u get when religious folks try to be scientific

[ekim]

For one, design and creation is a human construct. Also, we cannot naturally fathom quantum mechanics, we cannot naturally fathom protein folds, we cannot fathom gamma rays naturally. We arrive at those conclusions via observation assistance and deduction. To say that God must do xyz is preposterous. We have no clue what must be. All we can do is use our installed hardware to argue via human constructs.

[sophiarising]

😊 ...probly what AI is saying right now looking at us❤

[iveseen]

The god who wrote the bible is no universe designer.

[johnv]

How do you know the laws and rules he brought into being also apply to him without exception? God would be on another plane of existence from us therefore not subject to them.

[henrysantos]

Should we throw it out because we dont have the answer?

[bradzimmerman]

lol the christian god is to cowardly to react, but loves playing hide and seek or design a good blood sacrifice for the fun of it *

[kevinhamilton]

Coming from your atheist, evidential view can you give us an example of how you would prove metaphysical things like math? Or things like logic? This shows you cant prove everything in the same way it’s impossible..for example you can’t look through a telescope and prove numbers exist or measure history or logic with a ruler. So you beg the question every time you make an argument.. because you assume all these things without thinking about it like it’s just a given and that’s what I’m questioning your worldview on. What is a self or logic or category’s?? Let’s hear your views? And I will tell you how God exist.. and give transcendental argument for Him. And basically it is God is the necessary precondition for these metaphysical principles. To deny any of these things leads to insanity.

[vjohn]

Barker claims science hasn't answered all the questions but athiests are humble and admit that there is still mystery about scientific findings but blames believers of the mystery of God who is beyond space, time, and matter...go figure with this guy smh

[littlehorn]

Welcome to the unfathomable concept of eternity. Eternity is forever

[joannthornton]

How can you say GOD is just a designer. And what he should be thinking or feeling. That’s what the Masons think . The great designer.but yet they lie to their own Conrad’s constantly. Most complexities come from man not GOD. Man has more rules and complexity than GOD has ever bestowed on us.