Can 3D V-Cache Save Zen 5?

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Video Index
00:00 - Welcome back to Hardware Unboxed
00:21 - Ad-Spot
01:18 - How will the Zen 5 X3D CPUs perform?
05:18 - Does it still make sense to keep DDR4 for LGA 1700?
08:58 - Will AM5 ever be as good as AM4?
11:05 - Ryzen 9950X and inter-CCD latencies
16:43 - Will CAMM2 memory ever be used in GPUs?
20:29 - Why are PSU capacities so much larger than typical gaming load?
24:43 - Why do games take up so much drive space today?
32:00 - Has AMD reached NVIDIA levels of scummyness?
38:34 - How do benchmarking processes change the results? LTT Discussion

Can 3D V-Cache Save Zen 5? Will AM5 Ever Be As Good As AM4? August Q&A [Part 2]

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Outro music by David Vonk/DaJaVo

[Tekel-Upharsin]

"Q&A" in the title would help. I didn't realize this was part 2 until I clicked it because the title and thumbnail did not indicate such.

[Efsaaneh]

Thank God, i thought he was gonna be standing for 50 minutes

[karehaqt]

LTT is just an entertainment channel nowadays so I don't put much stock in their CPU/GPU reviews, especially since the kerfuffle with GN.

[Ark_Strike]

Can't wait for the 5000X3D vs 7000X3D vs 9000X3D benchmarks video!

[GFClocked]

I was gonna get 7800x3d, but i guess after bad 9000 reviews people had the same idea as the price increased nearly 100€💀

[ScourgefGod]

Will there be 7800x3d with 24h2 update tests ?
If so will there be 5800x3d included there ?
P.S. Huge respect for the work and time you put in these tests.
Started making tests of my own recently, with a lot less hardware, it's really long process.

[Gamecapturevideo]

Steve: I remember we used floppy disks...
Tim: Yeah, CDs, DVDs...
Steve: 🤦

[richtheobald]

I think the discrepancy between LTT and HU can be chalked up to the % exchange rate. The Australian % is much stronger than the Canadian % right now.

[brunobenetti]

IF zen 5 had the pattern of saving a bit of energy at similar performance, the x3d doesn't really need to save any more power, I hope they push it to save face, and we get a monster.

[AshySamurai]

The only thing I wait now is new x3d cpus.

[JB-NZ]

Command and Conquer - that was the memorable OG for me too, totally epic. Used to play that over both Serial and Parallel connections, multiplayer with my mate, on our 486 DX2 50 and 66's. Epic times.

[thorium]

I predict that Zen 5 X3D chips may have bigger gains when compared to Zen 4 to Zen 5 non-X3D chips because of AMDs focus on reducing temperatures with Zen 5 with modifications to the IHS itself and also tighter TDP limits which would allow for higher frequencies than Zen 4 X3D chips due to the higher headroom to stay within the safe temperature limits of the 3D-V cache. Also certain leaks claiming that 9000X3D cpus may have support for manual overclocking rather than being locked, back this idea of the potential extra thermal headroom for Zen 5 X3D cpus.

[Springfield_.xmm]

Steve's a C&C fan? Omfg man am I glad to see another fellow gamer who began their gaming journey in C&C. 🤯🤯🤯

[xynthexia]

I'm hoping for at least one of the two scenarios (due to power reduction):
- 9950x3d is a full 3d-vcache product (both ccds have vcache)
- since 9000 is a power reduction, higher frequency on 9000x3d compared to 7000x3d

[jabronilifestyle]

Does the 9950x really need saving? It seems to be performing really well and, unlike the 13/14th gen, they don't die.

[james]

The real winner is the 5700x3d being like 200 dollars and still performing in spitting distance of these am5 chips

[Ereshkigal_]

I've been using an eVGA P2 1200W PSU since ~2019, had a Titan Xp SLi setup for a while. Still running great, and my previous to current build was a 5950X & a 3090 Kingpin (which I liquid cooled & got the XOC bios to push it to 700W+ for my own personal records in 3dmark) - so up until my current build, kinda needed that much power.
Now with a 7800X3D, even with PBO & 2200FCLK, it hits 80-85W max, and the 4090 I have from Gigabyte I typically run undervolted at 2775MHz @ 975mV, so it never pulls more than 350-425W... All the fans I have make up another 100W+ under load though lol - I tested it once, had the system at idle on a WattMeter then put the fans to 100% and the system draw went up over 100W...but that's for 15 fans.
Imo, buy a PSU to last you through several builds. Buy a quality brand, don't cheap out. Silverstone, Antec, Seasonic, etc.

[erictayet]

I haven't read Anandtech's article. Will read it later.

I mentioned somewhere, either here or somewhere that the Infinity Fabric is on a 256bit bus with the same frequency as Zen4, while the rest of Zen5 is 512bit. If there's a cache miss (or branch misprediction) and a program fires 10 concurrent threads, the whole process has to wait for the other threads (in the other CCD) to finish to prevent a race condition. This is why I'm optimistic that 9950X3D would improve gaming performance and certain workloads that use the almost 200MB L3+Vcache to interoperate between CCDs.

Games that can fit in L3 cache or makes full use of AMD SAM or ReBar can circumvent some of the inter-CCD latency.

This gets worse when the IOD is still 2x32bit DDR5 channels at 6000MT/s. A dual-channel kit only hits 128bit, so to fill a data register in Zen5, you need 4 reads from DRAM. A quad-channel setup would be much better because you then get 256bit per read. I have no idea if Zen5 allows partial data register reads at 64/128bits or not. Don't have access to those technical information but that is one of the disadvantages of MCM designs.


So far, Zen 1-4 had hidden the issue well but Zen 5 finally hit the bottleneck. I expect Zen 6 to improve the IF and IOD. So who knows, my next upgrade may be Zen5 EPYC to get that quad-channel support. 😁 (on the second-hand market.)

So why didn't AMD improve the IF? Coz TSMC CoWoS capacity has maxed out.

[MrHamof]

28:50 Original blurays were 25GB/50GB, BD-XL discs (UHD) are 100/128. XL discs are only available in 3 and 4 layer formats, as if you wanted the lower capacities you'd just use a regular bluray.

Incidentally, some developers still do try to make sure their games will fit in a BD-XL disc, specifically I remember an Insomniac developer mentioning it in an interview with Digital Foundry when talking about one of the Spider-Man games. I'm sure they're bigger on PC, but the PS5 versions ought to be almost exactly 128GB.

[AvroBellow]

To be fair, the performance uplift from Zen (Ryzen 1000) to Zen+ (Ryzen 2000) was also pretty anticlimactic IIRC.