Why CK2 is better than CK3 - and how to fix it

The new youtube uploader is pretty un-friendly so this description will always be the same from now on! If I'm using a modpack or something else that you might expect to find in the discription check for a pinned comment on the first episode of the series!

In the interest of full disclosure - I used to work for PDX as a contractor handeling social media promotion & communtiy management. If you think that makes me an unrelaible source fair enough, though you may be interested to know that my overall view of PDX as a developer (not employer) declided during my time working with them - so much for the fanatical loyalty some claim I retain ;). They are still of course the best developers in history, but that's another story.

[OhMeGaGS]

Paradox players are now angry there is not enough DLC. We well and truly live in a society

[chronovac]

My biggest gripe with CK3 is how static characters are. In CK2 you could gain and lose traits throughout your life that made characters feel dynamic. Maybe the spineless fool of a duke becomes a hardened warrior with an iron will. Maybe the young, virtuous king becomes a fat, greedy slob with no regard to his subjects as he becomes old. In CK3, After characters reach 16, you know EXACTLY how they will be for the rest of their lives beyond the minor Maluses due to stress traits. I know there are TECHNICALLY events that can change your personality traits (I also hate that they give you a limit of 3 per character btw), but they happen so rarely that you don't need to really worry about them. It ironically makes the nice 3d characters feel LESS alive than the ugly static portraits.

[Lord_Lambert]

One Proud Bavarian describing something as cookie clicker in a negative way and yet he likes Victoria 3?

Wild.

[veila]

What annoys me the most about is that many of the things that were added to CK2's base game after CK3 began development were just never updated. For example we're still missing Albanian, Crimean Gothic, and Dalmatian cultures in CK3 despite they being present in CK2 post-Holy Fury

[fredrickvonstien]

The Stellaris two team system should absolutely be done for Ck3, every single old ck2 system can be redone but for the love of God add them and their events back in, we need more flavor and events. I think the new perk focus system needs to be much more dynamic with events adding experience and certain skills, there was a mod on the workshop that made it so every point in a skill applied a small amount of passive experience, I feel like that should be in the game by default. The focuses that provide specific events should be why you select the focuses not the specific perks.

Edit: A lot of the systems they introduced in ck3 are fantastic, the stress system and dynasty/house systems are a good example, the cultures can be fun though they desperately need flavor events.

[TheSgtsnicker]

Didn't read through all the of the comments but you forgot to mention the huge patch that brought the Imperial Byzantium changes, great works. Also you didn't mention bloodlines which I feel are very different from the renown trees in modern CK3. Gave you a reason to plan inter-generational marriages beyond just alliances.

[imnotmark]

CK3 is so stale. Sometimes when become king or emperor, you just kinda sit there till your character die.

[airnspace]

I'm happy to know I'm not the only one who still prefers CK2 over 3. There's just so much more stuff to do and its clearly going to be a long while before 3 could catch up in its depth of content.

[Fallub]

I completely agree with the lack of content. If CK3 wants to succeed CK2 it must have more content in the future. An import of CK2s many many events would be perfect.

[DarkPhoenixGaming]

As someone who loves raiding as a viking in ck2 more than any other playstyle, the thing I think is the most superior in ck2 is raiding. How CK3 does it, the person getting raided just has such an advantage. For one thing, if that person has a big enough army then unless you're raiding an island with no other land connections, 99% of the time, you will get caught and have to fight bc of the stupid time it takes to run away/get on boats when raiding (also the fact the ai can just move their rally point right next to you but that's a whole other issue).

Also, hard agree about ambitions. I really do miss having them and hope they come back someday. But maybe don't bring back the thing where the become king ambition as a pagan gave you infinite subjugation wars within than de-jure title for that character's lifetime.

That said, I feel I should say something positive about ck3 to balance this out. Revolts are so much better in ck3. I can still remember the time in a ck2 game as muscovy, I got 16 peasant revolts within a year. Compared to that, the ck3 system is god tier.

[AlexBergPlays]

Great suggestions. Not gonna happen unfortunately. 😞

[benismann]

i think those are nice takes. As an eu4 veteran, i sure do see no problem with having lots of mechanics even if they could be implemented better in 302030123012 years, coz that's basically what eu4 is. It does a lot of stuff, and a lot of major points are dont better and more indepth in other pdx games, but it doesnt make it any worse

[johnlynch]

I wholeheartedly agree with your suggestion that the dev team polls updates and ask players about their opinions on updates. That’s actually what the devs do for another game that I play, old school RuneScape, and it’s worked wonders. Awesome updates with tons of great content, and they completely reversed the downward trend that the OG RuneScape was on.

[megankneemd]

I have about the same amount of ck3 hours as you do, with over 1000 hours in ck2. I agree with just about everything you said. It's hard to say what exactly I don't like about ck3 because I like a lot of the customisation and in theory like a lot of new mechanics. However the game still feels kind of...empty? I love to hate the bullshit mechanics of ck2 that lead to you getting invaded with a shitty 3 year old heir on the throne, and I'm ck3 it's just to easy to avoid happening. The worst of it for me is how succession and laws work in ck3. For as much as I hated conclave in ck2, I came to love the control it gave you over your realm. Being forced to basically have hard gavelkind succession the entire game in ck3 and not being able to change your vassal laws enmasse is such a pain that most of my playthroughs are basically just reconquering land j already had or breaking the rp to disinherit people which kind of ruins the fun for me

[Lone_GamerUK]

Basically CK2 is a 1000 ways better than CK3, CK3 only has 2 start periods which is a shame there isnt more like CK2 - sometimes these companies that have a hit game just needed a remasterd version of the same game, new map, not much was wrong with CK2 after all the DLC came out.

Music, events, crusades, Plagues, & UI & the stories you had in game (which is the game) is just lacking in ck3 it seems just a way to get more money out of the same player base with CK3 trying to say we add this and that and it be more like ck2 in future (it like if Grand Theft Auto 5 came out smaller, less story, less options but just shinny new maps, and said we get there in 10 yrs if you just keep buying £30- dlc's to get a game like the last oen)- just play ck2, harsh I know on ck3 but they kinda broke it when it didn't need breaking.

But we are where we are at I guess.
PS. I Agree with how much love I had for the art, stills and event pics - (weddings & corinations were amazing) I think CK 2 managed like books do to allow you to fall into a virtual world, it why books are still popular & they have no graphics just art).

[ewbait]

Crazy how sainthood and great bloodlines didn't get properly implemented into CK3. I know it's because there are dynasty legacies, but bloodlines from CK2 feel so much more earned. When I would grind hard for my character to be a literal paragon of virtue and to be canonized, I would hope, might even say PRAY for my ruler to become a saint. I'd feel vindicated when it would, but spurred away when it wouldn't. Just that little interaction can steer the life of my next ruler or my entire campaign. Maybe I'll create an Anti-pope, maybe I'll convert and move to take down Catholicism. Bloodlines felt particularly earned because there were specific accomplishments a ruler must attain before reaching that status.

[Boi-djeo]

The lack of events is what caused me to not buy the game yet. I played the game for about 20 hours during the free weekend after it just came out. I spend a lot of time just with max speed waiting for something interesting to happen. It did not. In ck2 it took me 700+ hours to feel like I've done everything I wanted. In ck3 it took me those 20 hours. Also I am an advocate for bringing back supernatural events. Those where the best events in ck2 after all. Also bloodlines where dope, don't know if they are in ck3 tho.

[StephanthePelted]

Sure, they might want to redo some of the existing CK2 DLC before bringing them into CK3 DLC, but getting bared bones 'new game' when you have a working CK2 with said features.. sound wrong
To quote Cristo: 'What CK3 is competing is the END STATE of CK2'

[ChiefKene]

You convinced me 4:30 I’m going balls deep and getting all the CK2 DLC. I’m a paradox shill since Stellaris.


Steam had a subscription service for all the DLC for $4.99 a month and the game free. I opted for that to try out the game for $5 lol

[Baso-sama]

ck3 made rage quit from the menu 3 times before i even started the game. first when i saw jewish khazars (totally ahistorical, no evidence of them ever being jewish), then seeing chinese looking magyars (they didn't look like chinese, there are plenty of dna studies about them), then after i managed to get over how superficial the historicity of the game is, i convinced myself to finally start playing it. i made a custom character and spent an hour to make a character look how i wanted, then i clicked the beautiful trait and it turned him into a hideous plastic surgery addict. rage quit again, spent another hour scouring for any mod which removes this goddamn beauty trait effect, none of them were up to date and working so i just decided to uninstall it. ck3 is the first paradox game which made me uninstall before ever starting a run.